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Are BLDSA Windermere and Loch Lomond good races to prepare for the English Channel?

miklcctmiklcct London, United KingdomMem​ber

I'm looking at the longest races in 2021 by BLDSA. Those are Windermere (17 km) and Loch Lomond (35 km), scheduled 1 week apart (!!!!!) with Loch Lomond coming first. These races do not cost a lot and there are good reviews so I'm taking them into consideration to formulate a plan for 2021.

I have a few questions:
1. Are these races good preparation for me for a channel attempt in the same year? I have asked people before that, a Windermere one-way is a good preparation, however for a two-way it is even harder than swimming the channel. Can anyone here who have swum the Windermere before his/her channel attempt in the same year share his/her experience? I'm still doubting that a lake swim can be hard because, in my opinion, there are no tides, currents and swells in lakes so it should be easier to a sea swim with the same distance, so I am thinking a Windermere two-way / Loch Lomond can be done in order to build up my confidence before I swim the channel. Am I right? Also, how cold are the lakes in late August / early September?
2. These races are only 1 week apart. Is it a good idea to attempt both (i.e. the 35 km Loch Lomond then the 17 km Windermere)? Obviously if doing both the former 35 km will be my A race which will push my "zone" of long distance swimming. How long do I need to recover after doing a 35 km race?
3. My channel attempt is scheduled in mid-September. Are doing these races a good final preparation before my attempt, or will they be too close to my channel attempt without enough time to recover?
4. The key difference between channel swimming and these two race are that, channel swimming is not a race. So what's the main difference between training for a channel swim and training for a swim race of similar length (e.g. Loch Lomond))?

Comments

  • andyt2404andyt2404 Jersey, Channel Islands Member

    In my experience regular training is good.
    You have to look at the channel, open water (ocean) could be swimming in the dark.
    The two races are not ocean however, although not done loch lomond, i believe some is in the dark so its good training for swimming in dark.
    Any good swimming time is good. I would build it into a training program. I would also say that unless your use to doi big two races back to back within a week you might need to recover. On the other hand if your not racing and taking your time and doing it as “training” id say go for it. But listen to your body. If its hurting then get out.
    Answer to your question. There is no yes or no answer. Down to you and how you been training and what your use too.

    SoloStephen
  • KatieBunKatieBun CornwallSenior Member

    I did 2 way Windermere the year before I did EC. It was my first major swim and I don't think I would have done it a few weeks before my EC. I used it to try out feeding and see what agreed with me.....but it's no substitute for training in the sea.

    Stephen
  • WillMWillM NorwayMember

    I agree that there are more variables in sea swimming but don't underestimate lake swimming.
    You are obviously less buoyant in fresh water and I always feel colder in fresh water - ? maybe due to a higher specific heat capacity ?
    Good luck

    Stephen
  • ColmBreathnachColmBreathnach Charter Member
    edited May 2020

    Don't underestimate lake swiming, it's not easy. You get used to the extra buoyancy of salt water. When that's taken away from you, it makes it quite difficult. Give me the sea anyday.
    I wouldn't attempt a 17K and 35K with only one week in between, and wouldn't do a 35K swim within a few months of an EC swim.
    I would reconsider using them as confidence boosters. What if you don't finish a 2 way windermere or lomond? Where does that leave your confidence? Maybe it's better to do multiple shorter (6 hr ish) swims?
    Also, you need to stop thinking about these as races. For 99% of swimmers they're not. The 99% are just aiming to finish, and hopefully finish well. If you have something left in the tank for a fast 30 mins at the finish, then go for it, but otherwise, swim conservatively.

    StephenflystormsBogdanZ
  • phodgeszohophodgeszoho UKSenior Member

    Everyone is different but personally I would advise against doing multiple big swims so close to your EC. Put simply it is too late... It may be easy to say they are just1 to boost your confidence but if they go wrong then you want time to focus on lessons learned.

    Anything you hope to learn about yourself, or your swim plan, during these events, would be potentially disruptive to try and apply it to your EC as you really shouldn't be making changes to your tried and tested feeding and support plans so close to your EC. In theory, as you would potentially be going into a taper straight after Loch Lomond you would not have time to practice any changes anyway.

    Even with the best stroke and preparation to prevent injury, these swims can take a toll on your physical preparedness. Your immune system can suffer and even without injury, you can catch a cold, get sick, etc. which potentially puts your EC at risk.

    I know it is difficult at the moment with COVID but this season is the best time to bank an equal distant challenge to your EC. It gives you a year to put into practice anything you learn from these swims.

    I am assuming BLDSA Lomond will still be the bank holiday weekend in August so that would be potentially just two weeks before your mid-September tide opens. Assuming that your pilot doesn't offer to bring your swim forward if the weather is not looking good.

    Maybe consider self-organizing your own big swims late this year or early next. It may not have the gravitas of a BLDSA event but even getting in a small lake for 2 x 12 hour back to back swims, even feeding off a pontoon or kayak will give you a lot to work with.

    I did a Loch Lomond in 2014 as preparation for my EC in 2015. Many people consider Loch Lomond to be the harder of the two swims. As mentioned above freshwater is less buoyant, anecdotally "feels" colder, although it should be mentioned that Loch Lomond in August will definitely be colder than the EC. If you do it with the BLDSA it is primarily a night swim and the Scottish air temp can be brutal. The year I did it only 2 of the 9 starting swimmers finished.

    Either way best of luck with your training and EC.

    StephenKatieBun
  • miklcctmiklcct London, United KingdomMem​ber

    @ColmBreathnach said:
    I would reconsider using them as confidence boosters. What if you don't finish a 2 way windermere or lomond? Where does that leave your confidence? Maybe it's better to do multiple shorter (6 hr ish) swims?

    If I don't finish I will probably give up my EC slot and sign up a waiting list in the next year (i.e. 2022). It is supposed to be a final test run of my feeding and support plan.

    @phodgeszoho said:
    Everyone is different but personally I would advise against doing multiple big swims so close to your EC. Put simply it is too late... It may be easy to say they are just1 to boost your confidence but if they go wrong then you want time to focus on lessons learned.

    I know it is difficult at the moment with COVID but this season is the best time to bank an equal distant challenge to your EC. It gives you a year to put into practice anything you learn from these swims.

    I'm thinking the possibility of doing some challenge early next year (about February) before I go to the UK for working holiday. However organised races are not an option (the longest race here being 14 km only) so I have to sort out all logistics by myself, including finding a fishing boat as an escort boat, finding an observer, planning the tide, etc. I will definitely need to find people with suitable maritime knowledge but the people I know (mainly in scouting) know nothing about marathon swimming so the logistics of a self-organised swim will be itself a challenge as well.

    I'm also trying to ask a local relay team who are doing the channel this year about their preparation as well.

    I am assuming BLDSA Lomond will still be the bank holiday weekend in August so that would be potentially just two weeks before your mid-September tide opens. Assuming that your pilot doesn't offer to bring your swim forward if the weather is not looking good.

    Maybe consider self-organizing your own big swims late this year or early next. It may not have the gravitas of a BLDSA event but even getting in a small lake for 2 x 12 hour back to back swims, even feeding off a pontoon or kayak will give you a lot to work with.

    I did a Loch Lomond in 2014 as preparation for my EC in 2015. Many people consider Loch Lomond to be the harder of the two swims. As mentioned above freshwater is less buoyant, anecdotally "feels" colder, although it should be mentioned that Loch Lomond in August will definitely be colder than the EC. If you do it with the BLDSA it is primarily a night swim and the Scottish air temp can be brutal. The year I did it only 2 of the 9 starting swimmers finished.

    2 finishers out of 9, that's brutal. How about doing BLDSA Windermere (17 km) only as my final preparation? Do you think it is an easy swim? Will it be too close to my EC attempt (only 1 week before the tide opens)?

  • StephenStephen UKMember

    I swam the BLDSA 2 Way Windermere in 2017 and EC in 2018.

    Unsurprisingly your questions have already been answered by better swimmers than me – suffice it to say from my perspective one was excellent preparation for the other. I knew I could handle the distance and I surely wouldn’t be colder..

    As preparation for EC, then yes a single before a taper would work fine in my experience. It really depends on how much you are willing to spend and travel. The Lake District is beautiful, Dover is grim. However it’s about 5hr drive between the two when the roads are quiet. Then there is the cost of the swim and peak season accommodation.

    Knowing you are on budget I think your best preparation would be to stay at:

    https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g2269276-d3549612-Reviews-Varne_Ridge_Holiday_Park-Capel_le_Ferne_Kent_England.html

    and do your training in Dover Harbour. It’s a path many EC aspirants have successfully followed – and given your tendency to over-think this will be the ideal environment to get your mindset correct. These folks have seen it all before ☺

    flystorms
  • KarenTKarenT Charter Member

    Don't underestimate Windermere - it's a stunning swim, but the lake can be very cruel, especially when the wind gets up. Even on the one-way, it's defeated many swimmers. And I agree with @ColmBreathnach - a couple of people at the head of the field in BLDSA swims are 'racing'; the rest of us are just 'doing a swim' and enjoying the satisfaction of finishing.

    KatieBun
  • ColmBreathnachColmBreathnach Charter Member
    edited May 2020

    @Stephen said:

    Knowing you are on budget I think your best preparation would be to stay at:

    https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g2269276-d3549612-Reviews-Varne_Ridge_Holiday_Park-Capel_le_Ferne_Kent_England.html

    and do your training in Dover Harbour. It’s a path many EC aspirants have successfully followed – and given your tendency to over-think this will be the ideal environment to get your mindset correct. These folks have seen it all before ☺

    FYI, my understanding is that there's been a change of ownership at Varne Ridge, so it may not be the same experience it once was.

  • StephenStephen UKMember

    Did not know that Colm. End of an era either way..

  • miklcctmiklcct London, United KingdomMem​ber

    I'm now looking at a race called Celé Lipno. It is 32 km, from dawn to dusk near the summer solstice. A half-length (16 km) option is also available. The registration fee is 2000 Kč, with additional fee of 5000 Kč if organiser boat is to be used so it is not expensive at all. You are required to have 10 km experience to do the 32 km race, and 5 km experience to do the 16 km race. The expected temperature is 16°C - 20°C.

    The race is originally held on 20th June this year but due to the pandemic I've heard that it will be postponed to 19th June next year, therefore I think it may be a good race for me to prepare for an eventual channel crossing. Given the previous replies the BLDSA races are obviously too late to be used as a preparation, but this one is 3 months before of my window. Do you think that the 32 km race will be a good race to prepare for a late season channel attempt?

    PasqualeSolo
  • Webstem67Webstem67 Rapperswil, Switzerland Member

    I did 2WW as part of my prep for EC. It is a great test for EC and put me in a good place mentally. I swim in Switzerland where it is generally 5 deg C warmer than the UK lakes. As for Loch Lomond....probably the hardest swim I ever did. I think the Scottish Lochs are good prep for the North Channel....for cold acclimatisation and sheer mental grit....I might even say harder than NC. Just give yourself a good amount of time to acclimatise if you are coming from warmer climes! If you want to do 16-18 deg C swim in Europe we there are plenty of lakes now and plenty of locations. If you fancy Switzerland ....happy to kayak for you or talk things through....for what it is worth?

  • AkweAkwe Oxfordshire, UKMember

    If the scheduled Windermere/ Lomond events are too close to your EC slot you do have the option of a solo swim earlier in the year. There are plenty of hire boats on Windermere or companys such as Uswim or Chillswim can provide support.
    Logistics for loch Lomond may be a little harder to arrange. Ullswater is another option nearby, a bit shorter than Windermere but usually several degrees cooler

  • miklcctmiklcct London, United KingdomMem​ber

    @Akwe said:
    If the scheduled Windermere/ Lomond events are too close to your EC slot you do have the option of a solo swim earlier in the year. There are plenty of hire boats on Windermere or companys such as Uswim or Chillswim can provide support.
    Logistics for loch Lomond may be a little harder to arrange. Ullswater is another option nearby, a bit shorter than Windermere but usually several degrees cooler

    I don't want to deal with all those logistics for a solo swim though when I'm in a new country just for a few months, still in the process of getting to a new way of life. I'm really afraid of that when I know no one in the place I've just landed and need to find boats, crews, observers, etc without knowing where I should approach. Also I have no intention to swim in water which is too cold in early season as I don't have any cold water experience apart from a few short swims. (I just want to get my qualifier done in marginal temperature, and do my bulk of training in 16 - 20°C water)

    My original plan is to do a 21 km race in Sweden (Vidösternsimmet) this summer but it has been postponed to next year (2021) due to covid. Therefore I will need to find something else to do in order to make up my progress. I'm thinking to do some solo swims in Hong Kong before I make my move around March / April next year, maybe a 13 km in December first (expected 20 - 23°C), and a 20 km in February (expected 16 - 18°C, possibly includes night swimming), using the MSF documented swim process but I'm still sorting out the logistics including renting a fishing boat as a support boat, and finding an observer, and there are basically no existing resources here to help me to plan. We are still finding a way to popularize marathon swimming here. If doing races in Europe is not an option later in the year I may "upgrade" my 20 km into a 25 km and that's it.

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