FINIS enters marketing relationship with Diana Nyad

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Comments

  • phodgeszohophodgeszoho UKSenior Member
    edited September 2016

    @grappledunk - I am no expert. However there are guidelines on Endorsements, which it would seem is the core of their campaign. That Diana Nyad is endorsing their product, and that has weight because of her experience/celebrity status etc. If that experience is based on falsehoods then the campaign is misleading.

    https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/truth-advertising/advertisement-endorsements

    Endorsements are an important tool for advertisers and they can be persuasive to consumers. But the law says they also have to be truthful and not misleading. The FTC’s Guides Concerning the Use of Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising are guidelines designed to help advertisers of all stripes – TV, print, radio, blogs, word-of-mouth marketing – make sure that they meet this standard. For example, advertisers are advised that using unrepresentative testimonials may be misleading if they are not accompanied by information describing what consumers can generally expect from use of the product or service. In addition, the Endorsement Guides let endorsers know that they shouldn’t talk about their experience with a product if they haven’t tried it, or make claims about a product that would require proof they don’t have. The Endorsement Guides also state that if there is a connection between the endorser and the marketer of a product that would affect how people evaluate the endorsement, it should be disclosed. The Guides are not regulations, and so there are no civil penalties associated with them. But if advertisers don’t follow the guides, the FTC may decide to investigate whether the practices are unfair or deceptive under the FTC Act.

    The FTC revised its Endorsement Guides in October 2009 to keep them up-to-date with current marketing techniques, such as blogging and word-of-mouth advertising. The Guides point out that marketers using these new techniques are subject to the same truthful advertising laws that other forms of advertising always have been. That means, among other things, that marketers who are compensated to promote or review a product should disclose it.

    https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/one-stops/advertisement-endorsements/091005revisedendorsementguides.pdf

    DanSimonelliJenAAnthonyMcCarleyrlm
  • JenAJenA Charter Member
    edited September 2016

    Welll.... I think FINIS is definitely in violation of the endorsement guidelines.

    The Endorsement Guides also state that if there is a connection between the endorser and the marketer of a product that would affect how people evaluate the endorsement, it should be disclosed.

    If my memory serves me correctly, In my conversation with Jill Dahle, FINIS Global Marketing Manager, Jill disclosed that Diana Nyad has a "close personal relationship" with John Mix, FINIS CEO.


    How to report things to the FTC via phone:

    Call: 1-877-382-4357, Option 1, Option 3. This will connect you with a Consumer Counselor. They will ask you for:

    How to report things to the FTC online:

    • Go to https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/
    • Below the green bar that reads "Select a category below", select "Other"
    • In the text that appears to the right, select: "Click here for more options (Page 1 of 2)"
    • Next, select "NO MATCH FOUND: Unable to find any sub-categories that match your complaint topic? Click here to file your complaint and we will categorize it for you."

    I asked: "Is it enough for one person to make a complaint, or is it helpful if more people call in?" The FTC answered emphatically, YES, it is helpful if more people call in. Even though the press release has been recalled, it's still a big deal.


    Possible things to discuss include:

    1. "The partnership between FINIS and Nyad revolves around the use of FINIS underwater MP3 devices that she used while completing her swim from Florida to Cuba."

      • The observer's report made no mention of Diana wearing the device
      • The press release was recalled
      • Diana has deleted the observer's reports
    2. "Nyad tells the story of listening to John Lennon’s “Imagine” over and over again on her trek, saying that she knows when she’s listened to the song a thousand times, it’s been nine hours and forty-five minutes exactly."

      • The specs of the device state "Up to 7 hours of battery life" (http://www.finisinc.com/Duo)
      • Listening to a 3 minute, 3 second song 1000 times takes 3000 minutes, 3000 seconds (= 50 hours, 50 minutes) (not 9h45). This suggests Diana Nyad is unfamiliar with the device and hasn't actually used it as described.
      • It is extraordinarily unlikely that Diana Nyad could have listened to 50 hours and 50 minutes of music on a devices with a battery that lasts "up to 7 hours"
    3. The media marketing campaign makes the claim that Diana Nyad was the first to swim from Cuba to Florida.

      • The marketing campaign is inconsistent. The youtube video claims Diana Nyad was the first to swim from Cuba to Florida, but the recalled press release adds "without a shark cage"
    4. Did Diana Nyad swim from Florida to Cuba?

    For bonus points, you can also call the California Labor Department Complaint Line: 844-522-6734 :)

    evmoAnthonyMcCarleyKarl_Kingeryphodgeszohorlmpavlicovsuziedods
  • JenAJenA Charter Member
    edited September 2016

    @Niek said: Are complaints from non Americans allowed/legal?

    I'm not sure @Niek. I can verify that the phone numbers work from Canada though, and not all US toll free numbers do.

    The FINIS website says they are headquartered in California. I imagine that the California office would generate and be responsible for the press releases. And if they are doing something inappropriate in the US or California, the supervising agencies may not care where the report originates from.

    But ultimately, I don't know. Perhaps there is an EU equivalent organization you could reach out to? Maybe it would be helpful to approach this from multiple countries?

  • IronMikeIronMike Northern VirginiaCharter Member

    phodgeszoho said:
    That's the point. This is no longer a shouting match on social media but a claim of false advertising. Finis, as the publisher, will now bear the responsibility of proving these statements or retracting them. What was lacking before was an arbitrator which, in theory, is now the Federal Trade Commission.

    Again, I wish and I hope you're right. But I'm sure the FTC has way more pressing business than this. How many people is this Finis ad hitting, really, compared to all the other false advertising possibilities in bigger venues. I'm not going to get my hopes up.

    But should it come to smthg as you describe, I'll grab my popcorn and watch, just like I do every time I see the word Nyad in any thread here on MSF.

    We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams

  • evmoevmo SydneyAdmin
    edited September 2016

    @IronMike said: Again, I wish and I hope you're right. But I'm sure the FTC has way more pressing business than this. How many people is this Finis ad hitting, really, compared to all the other false advertising possibilities in bigger venues. I'm not going to get my hopes up.

    No doubt, the FTC have bigger fish to fry. But that's not really the point. Just as any given political protest in any given city is unlikely to directly affect national legislation.

    Raising awareness matters; and FINIS is a small enough company, in a small enough market, that our protest will be discussed at the management level - I can almost guarantee it. The fact that anyone is complaining to the FTC about their marketing, is probably unprecedented in their company history.

    Send your complaints to the FTC, and cc them to Jill Dahle and John Mix. It will make them uncomfortable, and that does make a difference, even if it's ignored by the FTC.

    pavlicovphodgeszohosuziedodsJSwimJenADanSimonelli
  • JenAJenA Charter Member
    edited September 2016

    Take heart, as well, that we aren't complaining about the marketing of pencil sharpeners, CDs, or hammers. I think the FTC may prioritize this as a bigger deal because we are speaking about fitness equipment. I imagine they will want/need to evaluate if there are health claims or implications as part of their process.

    I think the qualifications of the endorser are also a big deal. I doubt the FTC will care if Diana Nyad upheld the spirit of marathon swimming. But lying about qualifications seems like something else entirely. Aren't drug marketers required to disclose when they are using actors as patients? Clarifying that they don't have the allergies/overactive bladder/etc that the drug treats? Lying about Diana Nyad's athletic accomplishments seems more egregious than not disclosing you are using actors for patients.

    DanSimonelli
  • IronMikeIronMike Northern VirginiaCharter Member

    Well, I already wrote to Finis/John Mix and got no response, which I hope is simply because they've got an overwhelmingly full inbox of complaints already.

    Now get ready for part II, when the Nyadiots catch wind of this and start writing USMS and Finis in support of their goddess.

    We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams

  • Karl_KingeryKarl_Kingery Denver, COSenior Member

    @IronMike , I sent an email to Mr. Mix and Mrs. Dahle. I got a bounce-back reply from Mr. Mix's email saying that he would be out the 19th and the 20th. There is a good chance that he has not had the chance to see the emails.

    IronMikeJenADanSimonelli
  • JenAJenA Charter Member
    edited September 2016

    I just heard from Jay at USMS. I got a strong vibe that he didn't actually want to chat with me, claiming he needed to be in a meeting 2-3 minutes into our conversation. (Sigh)

    I didn't get a sense of that USMS would flex their leadership muscles in dealing with this.

    I'd imagine that USMS is skittish. There aren't many swim product companies out there (I'd imagine everyone else would dwarfed by FINIS, Speedo and TYR). FINIS probably represents a serious chunk of USMS' budget.

    I asked Jay to call me back when they had made progress on the issue and he said I could call him.

    Pity USMS management doesn't grasp that what is great isn't easy.

    DanSimonellirlmgregocevmo
  • Karl_KingeryKarl_Kingery Denver, COSenior Member

    Mr. Mix at Finis just sent me an email. He told me that they are currently making an effort to amend their marketing materials. We will have to see what their marketing team will be coming up with, but we have made them aware that Mrs. Nyad was not the first to swim from Cuba to the United States and they have acknowledged it.

    suziedodsevmorosemarymintJenAslknightrlmAnthonyMcCarleygregocphodgeszohograppledunkcurlybluemermaid9DanSimonelli
  • suziedodssuziedods Mem​ber
    edited September 2016

    we have made them aware that Mrs. Nyad was not the first to swim from Cuba to the United States and they have acknowledged it.

    SWEET !! This is just supercalfragalisticexpealidocious ! =D> <:-P

    JenAbluemermaid9
  • IronMikeIronMike Northern VirginiaCharter Member

    Interesting article and while I agree with most of what is written, I take exception to this part:

    While cheating is cheating, the only person Young has destroyed is himself. There were no rivals on the road to cheat out of medals.

    Untrue. If he had beat the record (or claimed to have), he would have cheated the previous record-holder.

    evmoJenAAnthonyMcCarleyDanSimonelli

    We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams

  • phodgeszohophodgeszoho UKSenior Member

    @ironmike and future record attempts...

    evmoIronMikeAnthonyMcCarleyDanSimonelli
  • Iron Mike,

    I am so glad to hear you got a response from USMS. I emailed them (including Laura) and got notice that they emails I sent were never even opened. I am going to hope that it just means they heard enough to take notice and reading another email was over kill.

    Anyway, you all bring up an interesting point about now the validity of DN's claims are in the public realm. If a false robbery was enough to get Ryan Lochte a ban from US swimming, perhaps we can hope that finally her false claims will catch up with her in a way she can't sidestep.

  • timsroottimsroot Spring, TXCharter Member

    Anyway, you all bring up an interesting point about now the validity of DN's claims are in the public realm. If a false robbery was enough to get Ryan Lochte a ban from US swimming, perhaps we can hope that finally her false claims will catch up with her in a way she can't sidestep.

    While I agree with your point, it should also be noted that Lochte's lapse in judgement occurred while he was effectively serving as a representative of USA swimming. Ms. Nyad's swim and subsequent claims are not in direct affiliation with USMS. It's a much bigger stretch (and likely wouldn't have any impact on her anyway) to ask USMS to give Ms. Nyad some sort of sanction. The contexts are very different.

    JenA
  • IronMikeIronMike Northern VirginiaCharter Member

    timsroot said:

    Anyway, you all bring up an interesting point about now the validity of DN's claims are in the public realm. If a false robbery was enough to get Ryan Lochte a ban from US swimming, perhaps we can hope that finally her false claims will catch up with her in a way she can't sidestep.

    While I agree with your point, it should also be noted that Lochte's lapse in judgement occurred while he was effectively serving as a representative of USA swimming. Ms. Nyad's swim and subsequent claims are not in direct affiliation with USMS. It's a much bigger stretch (and likely wouldn't have any impact on her anyway) to ask USMS to give Ms. Nyad some sort of sanction. The contexts are very different.

    Something like this came up some years ago with Lance Armstrong and USMS meets. Can't remember what the result was, but the concern was his doping vis-a-vis swimming in a masters meet.

    We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams

  • timsroottimsroot Spring, TXCharter Member

    IronMike said:

    timsroot said:

    Something like this came up some years ago with Lance Armstrong and USMS meets. Can't remember what the result was, but the concern was his doping vis-a-vis swimming in a masters meet.

    If I recall correctly, because Lance Armstrong was sanctioned by a federation (USA Cycling) that is a member of WADA, there is a reciprocity among other WADA signatories. USMS and USS are both under the same umbrella, USA Aquatics or something like that (which also has some oversight over USA Water Polo and Diving and probably Synchro, if I recall correctly). USA Aquatics is a signatory into WADA, so they were obliged to honor the sanction.

    My memory says that the reason it came up was because he was entered in a meet in Austin a few weeks after USADA's reasoned decision was issued and the sanction announced. I also remember that USMS was originally going to let him swim until enough people made a fuss, and they were pretty much forced by the court of public opinion to act. (I'm noticing a trend on USMS doing much of anything until pretty much forced to)

    JenAIronMikeDanSimonelli
  • EricEric Member
    edited April 2017

    Sure seems like FINIS has quietly killed off their Nyad ad campaign.

    rosemarymintDanSimonelliKatieBunIronMikephodgeszoho
  • phodgeszohophodgeszoho UKSenior Member
    edited April 2017

    @Eric I don't think so... At least on line anyway as it is still on their website's home page :-/ http://www.finisinc.com/

    =================================

    Never Swim Alone

    DUO UNDERWATER MP3 PLAYER

    "The water is my place of serenity and bliss. Immersing myself in music enhances the aquatic experience more than you can possibly imagine."

    • Diana Nyad, First person to swim the 111 miles from Cuba to Florida.

    =================================

  • EricEric Member

    @phodgeszoho - it seemed like they were posting that Nyad mp3 player advert almost every week on their social media accounts... and then it stopped.

This discussion has been closed.