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What replaces MIMS?
Gvanderbyl
Member
Hey!!
So I would like to pose a question/discussion for you.
Kinda complicated but gonna try to get it out as clear as I can.
So...there is as we (ows community) have established an "US" those who choose to swim under "Channel Rules" and "Them" those that don't. The "Them's" include (in my opinion) the DN's of the world, FINA open water swimmers, and even Olympic open water swimmers since all include elements/levels of support that are not part of "Channel Rules" type marathon swimming. Let me be clear that I have a HUGE respect for those that race FINA and Olympic swimmers, just stating obvious difference.
That being said in the "US" category, there is no Olympics or point swimming for World Champ. MIMS has sort of been the way we have established that. The winner last year was bestowed that title as those who have won before him. It is so unique cause it is the one time in the "US" category that all things are equal and there is no way to claim better conditions, currents, line, etc because everyone is in the same situation. Also, with the world wide participation and difficultly to qualify, you know you will get a high quality field. Obviously the winner may not actually be the fastest Channel Rules Marathoner in the World but for that day, and for those that made the cut to get in, we as a community seem to have officially-unofficially given them that title. It is funny cause everyone will ask what your Catalina time is or what your EC time is but they ask what PLACE did you get at MIMS?
With MIMS going the way of Catalina and the English Channel, what will take it's place for this distinction and is it important for our community to have a race to bestow such a distinction. Ederle? Stage 7 of 8 Bridges? Rottnest? Memphre?
Just posing the thought/question.....
So I would like to pose a question/discussion for you.
Kinda complicated but gonna try to get it out as clear as I can.
So...there is as we (ows community) have established an "US" those who choose to swim under "Channel Rules" and "Them" those that don't. The "Them's" include (in my opinion) the DN's of the world, FINA open water swimmers, and even Olympic open water swimmers since all include elements/levels of support that are not part of "Channel Rules" type marathon swimming. Let me be clear that I have a HUGE respect for those that race FINA and Olympic swimmers, just stating obvious difference.
That being said in the "US" category, there is no Olympics or point swimming for World Champ. MIMS has sort of been the way we have established that. The winner last year was bestowed that title as those who have won before him. It is so unique cause it is the one time in the "US" category that all things are equal and there is no way to claim better conditions, currents, line, etc because everyone is in the same situation. Also, with the world wide participation and difficultly to qualify, you know you will get a high quality field. Obviously the winner may not actually be the fastest Channel Rules Marathoner in the World but for that day, and for those that made the cut to get in, we as a community seem to have officially-unofficially given them that title. It is funny cause everyone will ask what your Catalina time is or what your EC time is but they ask what PLACE did you get at MIMS?
With MIMS going the way of Catalina and the English Channel, what will take it's place for this distinction and is it important for our community to have a race to bestow such a distinction. Ederle? Stage 7 of 8 Bridges? Rottnest? Memphre?
Just posing the thought/question.....
Comments
MIMS was such a unique beast. Nothing else like it for our community -- a global field of amateur (non-professional) marathon swimmers coming together on the same day in the same place for a good ole' fashioned race.
Last year's event was a trying experience for both organizers & swimmers, due to a variety of factors that have been well hashed-out already. Partly in response to that experience, this year's event will be split into three days, sorted approximately according to swimmer speed. So the fast swimmers will still get their race, and the others will have a more low-key experience (as many of them prefer).
But it does make me a bit sad for the sport that my experience in 2011 may have been one of the last of its kind. Sure, I was only "racing" against 5 or 6 people, but it was the 35 others whom I met over the course of the weekend-long event who made it the unforgettable experience it was.
I think I understand why Morty is going down this road, and I'd probably do the same in his position (he's one of the most savvy organizers in our sport). Perhaps they're just giving "the people" what they want?
Still, I agree with Grace there is now a void to be filled. Will be interesting to see who antes up...
If we look at many sports, the "Championship game(s)" travel. The America's Cup sailing location is chosen by the last winner (IIRC). The Superbowl (American football) is preselected (based on the package offered by the host city. The Olympics. The World Cup of everybody else's Football. The World Series of Baseball is determined by the home stadiums of the two competing teams. Pretty much the only sports that are static are Auto Racing, Golf, Tennis, Horse racing and le Tour d France. (Now, I'm not a guy who understands watching sports in the first place, but those are pretty much the LAST things I'm going to spend my Sunday watching on the teevee. At least with the Horse racing, it's over in minutes!)
Point here being that, while I do agree that there ought to be a "Championship Race" if only for the little boy and or girl to dream of while floating up and down, above that dreary pool lane line! Just like we did when we played catch (of whatever they call it in soccer) against the side of the house for hours on end, dreaming of the 9th inning of the 7th game of the World Series!
The question is prize money. How much prize money will it take to make the event? Is it $100,000? $1,000,000? Is it $10,000 with an endorsement contract? What will it take for ESPN to show up? (Did they cover MIMS? If not, would they underwrite MIMS for an exclusive?)
If I understand it correctly, MIMS was (I won't call it "ours" because I have no claim to being one of "us") your unofficial "World Championship Race." If you want there to be a replacement, don't make the same mistake twice. The next time it HAS to be The Official World Championship OWS Race.
I like the idea of 8 Bridges being TOWCOWSR (Tow Cow for "short") for a couple of reasons.
1. Multiday means that there can be strategy involved.
2. Multiday builds excitement.
3. Each stage begins and ends at (or near) a River City (except Bear Mountain) that could help finance the (not that I'm trying to critique the current protocol)
4. I'm advocating for the "home team"
OTOH
1. It's all "Down hill" (assuming the tides are timed)
2. It's not "Across" (far as I know).
As to the very valid point that with MIMS there is an equality based upon its consistency and that everyone racing there knows what they are facing. If the future site of the Tow Cow were announced say 4 years in advance then swimmers would all have the opportunity to race in that locale (did I mention that there would be at least annual races in those locales?) so they'd be familiar.
The question was what amateur (non-FINA) marathon open-water swim race will replace MIMS?
Let us not forget that Tampa Bay is still around and hopefully not going away.
Please leave the word "world" out of it because that causes @Niek to go ballistic (mostly when Americans use it).
@Niek, I am choosing to ignore your rude comment on Americans. You are entitled to your opinion but I am just putting it out there that the winner is touted not only as the fastest that day but in a Channel Rules observing community...even if they are not actually the "fastest"...it doesn't matter because that is the only "race" of it's kind that gets a field from around the world, that is tested equally. Just posing the question what it's replacement will be; not trying to debate your opinion on Championship swimming.
@Dredpiraterobts,
Stage racing is an amazing experience. I love it! 8 Bridges is also to this day has made a greater impact on my life than anything I have ever done. Racing Rondi 120miles down the Hudson was a privilege but the relationships gained with her and everyone involved were even better. Like @evmo says about his experience at MIMS, the opportunity to not only race but to cement those types of relationships is awesome. From a logistical stand point I don't know but Stage 7 through the city is EPIC and is part of the MIMS course and is long enough, that is why I suggested it.
I loved my one attendance in 2012, it was one of thebest swim related trips my partner & I have taken.
Just wondering, but would there be any possibility of a group of previous participants, forum members, CIBBOWS and other personnel getting together to continue hosting MIMS in its current format on a voluntary basis? Why would be needed, and could we get it done?
loneswimmer.com
"Lights go out and I can't be saved
Tides that I tried to swim against
Have brought be down upon my knees
Oh I beg, I beg and plead..."
Will these replace MIMS? I doubt it but certainly it speaks to an opportunity to PROVIDE a venue to cement and create stronger bonds amongst us.( 8 Bridges as well, as it's over week long, opportunity to kayak and eat together) Perhaps an island to island event in oh.. Greece? Sweden? @Sylle?
loneswimmer.com
Now the Race Director inside me is getting interested.....
Nanaimo Ocean Swim - http://www.viendurance.net/nanaimo-ocean-swim/
There will be other swims that attempt to mimic what MIMS, in it's race format, accomplished: a long race (excess of 7 - 8 hours), firm rules that mimic respected channel swims, a select but small group of international amateur channel swimmers shoulder to shoulder with less experienced but dedicated open water swimmers and an incredible environment.
Can it be duplicated? Not in my mind. Can it be replaced? Most likely not. Will there be suitable options in the future? No question. Just ask David, Phil, Ron, Ned, Steve, Suzie, Greg . . . the list goes on.
2015 -2018 are slated for June starts only.
Is this a one/off year as NYC finishes recovering from Sandy?
I will now go find a thread on this already started or start my own. Back to what the OP asked! I think the answer is Tampa. But I might not have understood the question.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Good questions. I'm not sure what format MIMS will take in the future. I assume it will have a lot to do with how the MIMSes go this year. Ultimately, dividing the field up by speed is a benefit for a) those who want to race; and b) those at the lower end of the speed limit for making it through Hellgate.
It is indeed a blow to the social lure of the event as Donal mentioned, and for many of the local supporters of the event, having to choose which date to volunteer for is bittersweet.
I think, for the incredible social opportunity alone, multiple stage swims like SCAR and 8 Bridges can't be beat.
...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
There are also some great events over here in the UK which are open to all and follow strict marathon swimming rules. These events also have a great social atmosphere but don't seem to have many from overseas attending. Just thought I would mention these ones because they would seem to fit the requirement for a long distance competition of non-professional marathon swimmers.
BLDSA Windermere 10.5 miles (around 30-40 swimmers)
BLDSA 2 way Windermere 21 miles
BLDSA Loch Lomond 22 miles
These are all races held in still water, so there is no tidal assistance but the swims can have strong headwinds and chop. A race of Loch Lomond would surely sort the sheep from the goats! Water temp will be around 14C, the race starts at 8pm in the evening so swimmers have to swim through the night. Swimwear rules are traditional, i.e. budgie smugglers for men and standard swimsuits for ladies. They are the "purest" events that I have ever taken part in, pretty much man/woman versus the water. Plus the swims are really cheap!
I love the idea of the EC races, but I don't think it would be possible to obtain permission from the relevant maritime authorities nowadays.
I'm heading to Windermere for this year's (one-way) race, so I look forward to the social atmosphere @ZoeSadler!
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Molly Nance, Lincoln, Nebraska
MIMS as it's been recently is not going to happen again for a while because there is simply no way to put together enough competent boaters on a single day to handle 30-40 swimmers in New York's complex waterways. Frankly, that's been a struggle for all of the MIMS events, as well as the all of the Ederles, and any other mass NYC swim. Hats off to Morty for putting ALL of these events together and generating a thriving OWS scene in NY all these years!
So it will have to devolve to a new format for a while, until the local boating community recovers from Sandy.But I imagine that sometime in the future, someone will revive it because it's been an amazing experience, and because the demand is through the roof...in the meantime there are so many great events springing up locally, nationally and worldwide that I don't think we'll klack for interesting and exciting swims, solo and community, in the next few years.
Marathon Distance, single start race.
http://www.marathonswimmers.org/forum/discussion/854/should-we-bring-back-the-golden-age-of-marathon-swimming#Item_1
Based on the lack of responses, seems only you and I are interested in these types of races.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Yes it could be done - and indeed a few of us on the SBCSA Board have occasionally batted around the idea.
But basically, you'd need someone to be a full time (paid) race-director for probably at least a full year. And that would probably require obtaining corporate sponsorship
At SERC we say "IN" when we are doing an event.
Count me OUT for paying to be an MSF member putting on an event.
Happy to help put on an event ( I cut my baby teeth on the 24 Hr Relay) but no way am I paying to run an event.
Starting with Wrigley, a subsidiary of Mars, Inc. since 2008.
I love the idea of a modern day Wrigley Ocean Marathon, but clearly there would be a boatload of $$$ involved in any such undertaking. Not sure how high it ranks among the various priorities (personally I'd like to see a scholarship fund), but if it ever came to pass, corporate sponsorship seems the more likely route.
Based on the volume of rainfall between 9AM-11AM this morning and 6PM-8PM this evening, the water quality should now be considered compromised. The rain volume is much lower than last year, but it is now compromised.
We will still hold the swim tomorrow; however, if you are uneasy about swimming and wish to withdraw please let us know now so we can cancel your motorboat and give you back a refund for that portion of your entry form.
If you do decide to go forward with your swim tomorrow, please consult with your physician regarding any antibiotic regime they may suggest.
If you decide not to swim, please let us know by 10 PM tonight so we can make arrangements with your boaters and other support personnel.
Thank you,
NYC Swim
Emphasis mine. Best of luck to those people who are swimming today, (who won't be reading this). Have a great time!
loneswimmer.com