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Pace Question
Bill
Member
Background:
- Former "mediocre" college swimmer.
- Been back in the water for the past 7 months (after an approx. 10 year hiatus from swimming FT).
- swimming about 35k-40k per week in the pool (still too cold to get in the lake here in Ottawa)
- Could probably muster up an 18:00-18:15 1500 scm if I had to.
3 months ago, I have added a "long" swim day with the goal to get to a 12km straight swim the month before the 10 mi kingdom swim (my goal race). I am currently at 8km and am having pace problems. Around the 4km mark, I start to fall off my pace and end up killing myself to try to limit the ascent. I have been starting off around 1:19s - 1:20s and end up at 1:24s. This week I started off at 1:22s to see if I was just going out too hard, but the same thing happened around the same mark and I ended up struggling to finish at 1:25s. Based on the "Swim Smooth Race Pace Estimator" I should have been fine to hold at the 1:22 pace.
Do people typically see an ascent in their pace in a 10km-20km swim or do most people hold it rock solid? Any suggestions?
- Former "mediocre" college swimmer.
- Been back in the water for the past 7 months (after an approx. 10 year hiatus from swimming FT).
- swimming about 35k-40k per week in the pool (still too cold to get in the lake here in Ottawa)
- Could probably muster up an 18:00-18:15 1500 scm if I had to.
3 months ago, I have added a "long" swim day with the goal to get to a 12km straight swim the month before the 10 mi kingdom swim (my goal race). I am currently at 8km and am having pace problems. Around the 4km mark, I start to fall off my pace and end up killing myself to try to limit the ascent. I have been starting off around 1:19s - 1:20s and end up at 1:24s. This week I started off at 1:22s to see if I was just going out too hard, but the same thing happened around the same mark and I ended up struggling to finish at 1:25s. Based on the "Swim Smooth Race Pace Estimator" I should have been fine to hold at the 1:22 pace.
Do people typically see an ascent in their pace in a 10km-20km swim or do most people hold it rock solid? Any suggestions?
Comments
At the beginning of my training plan, I started out with a 2500 continuous swim and built up by 500 every week. I'll be up to 7500 yards this week. My pace has become very consistent on those. Nowhere near the Swim Smooth Race Pace estimator, though.
Before I started this gradual build, my pace would have dropped off as you're describing. Continuous swims are harder than it seems like they should be.
You also might be bonking.
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On a side note - I read just today that caffeine may increase the chance of cramping during intense exercise. I had been using a gu that had extra caffeine, since I haven't figured out any other reason for my propensity for calf cramps, I plan on removing it from my bag of tricks. I don't want to start rumors about caffeine, but wouldn't mind hearing comments.
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For example... when I did my 25km Pyramid of Death I held a fairly steady pace (1:23-4 per 100 LCM) for the first 10km or so. Then, my pace fell off - gradually, but steadily - for the rest of the set. By the end I was doing 1:28-9s. So, about 5 sec/100m drop-off (90 seconds per mile) - similar to what you describe.
@ssthomas recently did the Pyramid of Death... perhaps she can report on her experience
When you fall off pace after 4km, does it feel like an energy issue, or a muscle fatigue issue? (Or both?) The former would indicate a nutrition/hydration problem. If it's the latter, then perhaps it's a fitness issue (not surprising if you've only been back in the water 7 months).
Your question reminded me of an interesting passage in Tim Johnson's book History of Open Water Marathon Swimming. Capt. Johnson was the guru of the Manhattan Island swims in the 1980s & '90s, and a pioneer of computer-aided tide modeling for swimmers. For the 1983 MIMS, he calculated swimmers' paces by subtracting out the observed river currents. Here's what he found (from pg. 188):
What I might suggest is to see what happens when you don't watch the clock/your pace. Just swim comfortably, and don't worry about how fast you're swimming. You could be swimming too hard at the front end of the swim, without realizing it. And be aware- there is a difference between swimmming hard and swimming fast. You could be swimming a slower pace, but still swimming too hard. The key is staying relaxed at the beginning, so you can push yourself harder at the end when it starts to hurt. Once you make it to 8k or 12k, you'll have a feel for what your body can handle and you can start working on pace from there.
Though, in reading your above quotes, I'm in that "average" swimmer category. Never have been fast- but I can train well and pace the same thing all day long. I held 1:27s-1:28s for the entire 25k. This was much harder at the end than the start, but I've done enough long swims to know my limits. My guess is that Bill just needs more experience swimming long sets, so he can learn to pace more effciently.
I'm actually leaning towards Evmo's glycogen depletion idea... after a 1500 W/U and 4k-5k of the straight swim I'm at the 1:30-1:45 timeframe. I've always heard the 3 hour mark is when this happens... could it possibly be happening this early? I am still carrying some serious excess weight (205 lbs)... I wonder if this leads to higher glycogen consumption?
Assuming I am running out of glycogen... should I see a steadying of my pace further along as I get to the 10..12 k marks?
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I swear by a huge bowl of oatmeal (made with milk) and raisins & sugar before my long swims. Sustained energy and a solid base for all the liquid I will be consuming during the day.