AnthonyMcCarley said:
For me, the fundamental questions are:
1) When she had the time necessary to arrange for five boats and a crew of 40, why didn’t she have the same level of credible Observers she had on her previous attempts? (I believe I have heard the claim that she didn’t have time to arrange for Observers.)
2) Why wasn’t there the same level of video output as there was for her previous attempts?
3) How was she able to travel at nearly three times her typical speed (in the middle of the swim, when only her crew could see her)?
4) Why doesn’t publicly available current information support her claim of a current-assist?
5) Why hasn’t she publicly shared the swim documentation that she has publicly committed to share?
If there are credible answers to these questions, I haven't heard them.
Taking your points one by one:
1) I think Steve Munatones was on tap to be one of her observers, but he had to be somewhere else. Still doesn't answer why the other observer wasn't someone known to the community.
2) Because then there'd be proof.
3) Magic
4) The publicly available current info is controlled by the massive community of haters who want to discredit her amazing, life-changing unassisted swim.
5) She did. She shared it to the "higher marathon swimming organization." Just search for them on the internet. I think their email is IswamtoFLandIamawesomedammit@dn.org
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
It's actually come to the point where I am almost feeling more pity for her than anything else. The idea that she has set up demonstrably false constructs that allows her to maintain her income and/or her self-esteem is more sad than anything. Marathon swimming will survive this and history usually rights itself - eventually.
-LBJ
P.S. I note with interest that her father (who should have been shot) is described in the above article as a "con-man." Nature or nurture?
“Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess.” - Oscar Wilde
Leonard_Jansen said:
It's actually come to the point where I am almost feeling more pity for her than anything else. The idea that she has set up demonstrably false constructs that allows her to maintain her income and/or her self-esteem is more sad than anything. Marathon swimming will survive this and history usually rights itself - eventually.
-LBJ
P.S. I note with interest that her father (who should have been shot) is described in the above article as a "con-man." Nature or nurture?
It's become a bit of a Lance Armstrong doping situation, she's so tied to her 'story' that she can't backtrack. Sponsorship money, book rights, appearance fees, income that could be seen as unjustly deserved/earned. She can only go on, she's in too deep.
I flipped on my local TV news last night and was nauseated to see DN hyping her Seattle appearance in an effort worthy of a South Park motivational speaker parody. She badgered the news anchors to join her for a few miles of her walk across the country, to which they reluctantly agreed.
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
They showed the video of her dramatic finish during the broadcast. I loved the emphasis on not letting anyone touch her, like that was going to ruin the whole thing.
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
I am always amazed by the amount of negative banter in the forum and am quite sad that we are not using our time and energy to chat about ways to improve our sport.
I think we do use our time and energy trying to improve the sport. That is what my question was about. In fact, it could have been asked succinctly in the above video, "how do you use your time and energy to improve our sport?" If you (the Royal You) ask yourself the same question, hopefully you have a better answer than DN.
I don't wear a wetsuit; it gives the ocean a sporting chance.
On the one hand, I don't want to get caught up in simply bashing DN, although after once rooting for her, I'm deeply disappointed at what I've learned since about her behavior toward other marathon swimmers who have so carefully documented swims and were above board in presenting the details.
I'd rather focus on the good, on the people whose achievements are genuine, on people whose hours of work as swimmers, as crew members, as race directors, as observers, can ultimately help us celebrate the real successes.
Yet I think the negativity toward DN arises from the disconnect between the publicity and the truth -- and I get the anger people feel on that level.
Precisely because she has sought to become the face of marathon swimming, when her swim lacks the kind of documentation of, for instance Chloe McArdle's swims--which are genuine achievements that can be checked out--she does a disservice to the marathon swimming community by painting herself as the poor martyr whom the other marathon swimmers envy. It's too easy for the public to accept her story b/c she has the money to plaster the headlines with her name, play up her story without really listening to those who have worked to preserve the integrity of the sport.
I prefer really to ignore her and focus on the people who really have made strides--granted, not easy to do when she's got the name recognition and she captures the imagination of people who want the dramatic, the superhuman, the spectacular, and prefer to look the other way when those achievements are called into question. People hate to be disillusioned and will fight to preserve their illusions. I can't say I enjoy being disillusioned either, but it happens and it's offered teachable moments--not so much to be cynical and see the worst in people, but to think critically, value the genuine all the more, separate the publicity from the facts.
I'm all for people going after their dreams -- but I think of what Thoreau said, "If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost. Now put foundations under them." Our heroes need to show us not just the castles but the foundations. But people seem to want things simple. (Hence political candidates who use simple-minded slogans and appeal to the common denominator rather than appeal to the intelligence of voters.)
As a newbie to the sport, I look to those who are the real deal. I want to know how it's done,--how people have dealt with the obstacles, the currents, the physical setbacks, the cold, the wind, etc. Hiding details doesn't help those of us who could learn something from the documentation besides the need to go after our dreams. We want to know how to do this, how others have done it, whether it's realistic given our abilities, lifestyle, etc. I had to cut a swim a mile short, and even that DNF gave me information I could use for future swims. Nothing like that to show you what you need to correct.
And if DN had stated up front what rules she was following and not following--i.e., what kind of assistance she was getting and when, she and others could learn from those facts and use them to guide future swims ... by her or by others. I think she wanted to close the book, be done, so it's too tempting in that case to paint the picture you want to be real and it's possible she's come to believe herself that it's real. I don't know.
malinaka said:
I think we do use our time and energy trying to improve the sport. That is what my question was about. In fact, it could have been asked succinctly in the above video, "how do you use your time and energy to improve our sport?" If you (the Royal You) ask yourself the same question, hopefully you have a better answer than DN.
msathlete said:
I am always amazed by the amount of negative banter in the forum and am quite sad that we are not using our time and energy to chat about ways to improve our sport.
I'm amazed that one might reduce the many grievances the marathon swimming community has with DN to " negative banter".......
But then again, I suppose we are all influenced by our own goals.
@IronMike said:
Thanks for this. That was a fun read.
I am grateful for two things:
First, that the people on the MSF forums don't ever (that I've seen) come anywhere near to using the hurtful language that appears in this response on the thread
And, second, that not only the word really did get out, but it's stayed in the collective consciousness for more than two years now. That's a pretty great ripple effect from the efforts from a small community! So, cheers to @evmo, @loneswimmer, @malinaka, @rosemarymint, @ZoeSadler, and Grace van der Byl et al** for the clarification campaign. Job well done, guys!
** And anyone else I missed -- there are too many comments at this point to read them all!
@IronMike said:
Thanks for this. That was a fun read.
First, that the people on the MSF forums don't ever (that I've seen) come anywhere near to using the hurtful language that appears in this response on the thread
>
If you want to see nastygrams that far exceed that on a sports forum, go to the message board at www.letsrun.com It's also the easiest troll in the world.
-LBJ
“Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess.” - Oscar Wilde
Had a funny thing happen this morning. One of the lifeguards at the pool where I swim read Swimming to Antarctica. She was eager to discuss it with me and she commented, "I can see why you make that face when Nyad's swim is mentioned."
@IronMike - the Guardian comments are a site of notorious intemperate middle-of-the-night ranting and vitriol. No good ever comes from joining in. I've always found writing to the journalists directly more effective though.
Comments
Taking your points one by one:
1) I think Steve Munatones was on tap to be one of her observers, but he had to be somewhere else. Still doesn't answer why the other observer wasn't someone known to the community.
2) Because then there'd be proof.
3) Magic
4) The publicly available current info is controlled by the massive community of haters who want to discredit her amazing, life-changing unassisted swim.
5) She did. She shared it to the "higher marathon swimming organization." Just search for them on the internet. I think their email is IswamtoFLandIamawesomedammit@dn.org
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
It's actually come to the point where I am almost feeling more pity for her than anything else. The idea that she has set up demonstrably false constructs that allows her to maintain her income and/or her self-esteem is more sad than anything. Marathon swimming will survive this and history usually rights itself - eventually.
-LBJ
P.S. I note with interest that her father (who should have been shot) is described in the above article as a "con-man." Nature or nurture?
“Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess.” - Oscar Wilde
An (ahem...) interesting article on the Wicked Witch of the Wet (a.k.a. She Who Cannot be Named) on today's (12 November) DNOW.
-LBJ
“Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess.” - Oscar Wilde
It's become a bit of a Lance Armstrong doping situation, she's so tied to her 'story' that she can't backtrack. Sponsorship money, book rights, appearance fees, income that could be seen as unjustly deserved/earned. She can only go on, she's in too deep.
Bumping this for @malinaka who I know just saw her in the flesh.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
I flipped on my local TV news last night and was nauseated to see DN hyping her Seattle appearance in an effort worthy of a South Park motivational speaker parody. She badgered the news anchors to join her for a few miles of her walk across the country, to which they reluctantly agreed.
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
Look, I've already submitted my full report and all the data to the public, and the experts say it looks fine. Stop badgering me.
(But honestly, I took notes, and will report to you my observations shortly. There are also some videos; one involves singing.)
I don't wear a wetsuit; it gives the ocean a sporting chance.
They showed the video of her dramatic finish during the broadcast. I loved the emphasis on not letting anyone touch her, like that was going to ruin the whole thing.
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
If you could ask Diana Nyad one question, in public, unscreened: what would it be?
Here is my answer:
I don't wear a wetsuit; it gives the ocean a sporting chance.
BRAVO!
Yesterday would've been a stellar day to take such a distinguished guest to Alki, with those big breakers blowing in.
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
I am always amazed by the amount of negative banter in the forum and am quite sad that we are not using our time and energy to chat about ways to improve our sport.
I think we do use our time and energy trying to improve the sport. That is what my question was about. In fact, it could have been asked succinctly in the above video, "how do you use your time and energy to improve our sport?" If you (the Royal You) ask yourself the same question, hopefully you have a better answer than DN.
I don't wear a wetsuit; it gives the ocean a sporting chance.
On the one hand, I don't want to get caught up in simply bashing DN, although after once rooting for her, I'm deeply disappointed at what I've learned since about her behavior toward other marathon swimmers who have so carefully documented swims and were above board in presenting the details.
I'd rather focus on the good, on the people whose achievements are genuine, on people whose hours of work as swimmers, as crew members, as race directors, as observers, can ultimately help us celebrate the real successes.
Yet I think the negativity toward DN arises from the disconnect between the publicity and the truth -- and I get the anger people feel on that level.
Precisely because she has sought to become the face of marathon swimming, when her swim lacks the kind of documentation of, for instance Chloe McArdle's swims--which are genuine achievements that can be checked out--she does a disservice to the marathon swimming community by painting herself as the poor martyr whom the other marathon swimmers envy. It's too easy for the public to accept her story b/c she has the money to plaster the headlines with her name, play up her story without really listening to those who have worked to preserve the integrity of the sport.
I prefer really to ignore her and focus on the people who really have made strides--granted, not easy to do when she's got the name recognition and she captures the imagination of people who want the dramatic, the superhuman, the spectacular, and prefer to look the other way when those achievements are called into question. People hate to be disillusioned and will fight to preserve their illusions. I can't say I enjoy being disillusioned either, but it happens and it's offered teachable moments--not so much to be cynical and see the worst in people, but to think critically, value the genuine all the more, separate the publicity from the facts.
I'm all for people going after their dreams -- but I think of what Thoreau said, "If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost. Now put foundations under them." Our heroes need to show us not just the castles but the foundations. But people seem to want things simple. (Hence political candidates who use simple-minded slogans and appeal to the common denominator rather than appeal to the intelligence of voters.)
As a newbie to the sport, I look to those who are the real deal. I want to know how it's done,--how people have dealt with the obstacles, the currents, the physical setbacks, the cold, the wind, etc. Hiding details doesn't help those of us who could learn something from the documentation besides the need to go after our dreams. We want to know how to do this, how others have done it, whether it's realistic given our abilities, lifestyle, etc. I had to cut a swim a mile short, and even that DNF gave me information I could use for future swims. Nothing like that to show you what you need to correct.
And if DN had stated up front what rules she was following and not following--i.e., what kind of assistance she was getting and when, she and others could learn from those facts and use them to guide future swims ... by her or by others. I think she wanted to close the book, be done, so it's too tempting in that case to paint the picture you want to be real and it's possible she's come to believe herself that it's real. I don't know.
I'm amazed that one might reduce the many grievances the marathon swimming community has with DN to " negative banter".......
But then again, I suppose we are all influenced by our own goals.
...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
@dpm50
Excellent post!
Thanks, Dan!
Currently being discussed on slowtwitch- one of the largest triathlon forum sites in the world-
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Diana_Nyad_bio_P5801864
Thanks for this. That was a fun read.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
I am grateful for two things:
** And anyone else I missed -- there are too many comments at this point to read them all!
>
If you want to see nastygrams that far exceed that on a sports forum, go to the message board at www.letsrun.com It's also the easiest troll in the world.
-LBJ
“Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess.” - Oscar Wilde
Had a funny thing happen this morning. One of the lifeguards at the pool where I swim read Swimming to Antarctica. She was eager to discuss it with me and she commented, "I can see why you make that face when Nyad's swim is mentioned."
@Niek
Thank you. I thought Evan was the only one who saw that on Reddit. Your Oct 15th post made me chuckle. Been away too long.
~TeannnaJMing
#anagramsRfun
Discussion of @AnthonyMcCarley's investigation/analysis of the swim timeline has been moved to this thread:
http://marathonswimmers.org/forum/discussion/1304
Interesting how Nyad is now manipulating clueless journalists into redefining "Unassisted":
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/jul/10/endurance-swimmer-diana-nyad-its-about-steel-trap-mind
Ugg..this crap again. Not willing to create a Guardian presence so I can go in and comment. Glad to see others already have.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
@IronMike - the Guardian comments are a site of notorious intemperate middle-of-the-night ranting and vitriol. No good ever comes from joining in. I've always found writing to the journalists directly more effective though.
Boy this gets tiring.
Milko
https://db.marathonswimmers.org/p/milko-van-gool/