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Ironman news about swimming changes...
Leadhyena
Member
This is interesting: http://www.slowtwitch.com/News/Swim_changes_for_NA_Ironmans_3599.html... specifically: "Also, WTC announced today that no swim will be conducted in water colder than 52 degrees or warmer than 88 degrees."
Comments
loneswimmer.com
I think wetsuits are no longer legal in IM's at around 76F or so.
http://notdrowningswimming.com - open water adventures of a very ordinary swimmer
I thought it was 78. THat said, I've heard plenty of people talk about how hard they try to make a triathlon wetsuit legal.
I used to think I wanted to do an ironman just to say I finished one. THe more I hang out with triathletes, the less I want to do one.
I found this tidbit a bit more interesting:
What better way to encourage triathletes not to have to learn to swim.
www.WaterGirl.co
AZ Open Water Swimming on Facebook
So I’m certainly not a fan of the wetsuit for personal use, however they are not going away in the triathlon world, no matter what. Arguably the modern swimming wetsuit is the major reason for the tremendous growth of triathlon over the last 20-years. Please note other triathlon federations have different rules, for example the United States Triathlon (UST) wetsuit prohibition is two degrees higher at 78F.
I conduct several open water swim clinics a year in the Denver area, my audience is 90% triathlete, I teach it towards wetsuit use. Triathlon has become a big participation sport. Many of the participants greatest goal is to complete it not compete it. There doing it because of Cancer awareness or because all there friends signed up etc. Even though my clinics state minimum swim standards should be met many of them can barely swim. One could say I should advise them not to do it and although I will express concern and emphasis safety I know there is not much I could say that would deter them when all there “friends” have signed up. I have learned to ask my clinic attendees if they intend to wear a wetsuit most will say yes, however occasionally I get a slender women who not a good swimmer say no, in which case I strongly suggest they rent one primarily for safety reasons both to avoid possible hypothermia and the floatation assistance.
On reading the linked article in it’s entirety I’m happy with direction the Ironman Corporation is going, they are clearly addressing some swimmer safety issues and that is a good thing.
Read any of my "triathlete organized" OW swim reviews on my blog. I am with you! From resting on kayaks to swimming with a pull buoy to walking the low-water-level section of a 4 x 1KM loop course, I am all done with triathlete-organized OW swims.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
And it would show that they should have not held the race that Fran died in.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
When I returned to competition after being away nearly 20 years, I began by doing triathlons. I did them in part because I had a lot of problems with a shoulder and could get away with minimal swim training. I loved the sport because I finished so high up in the swim and convinced myself I could still swim fast. I loved finishing in the top 5% of a 1,000 person field. I even took 3rd twice in a race with over 400 people. Unfortunately, this didn't carry over to pure OW races. However, I don't think there is anything wrong with living in an illusion.
There's a guy who trains at my club who is there. I saw his post about the swim getting cancelled, and I chuckled a bit.
I had to do that on a 2.4 mile swim put on by a triathlon promoter in Port Hueneme... generally that would be a mild inconvenience (on top of being lame), but the exciting part was that we had 7-8 waves and 52 degree water that day! Not everyone made it out onto the course for the first lap and a lot of people just skipped the second one to avoid going through the washing machine again!
It is common in the world cup circuit, why I don't know. I suspect for fans to see the swimmers again.
It is unusual though not unheard of in amateur competitions to have a two loop swim for 1500 meters. That would happen if the lake was small.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
ITU Triathlon world cup. I've never seen a FINA world cup televized
Please clarify: Do swimmers exit the water mid-race on the FINA (10km) World Cup circuit, or not?
Thanks.
Steven Munatones
www.worldopenwaterswimmingassociation.com
Huntington Beach, California, U.S.A.
Now, I also want to say here and I know it will not make me very popular, that until you have swum 3,8, biked 180, and run 42,2 (all together) finishing before the cut off time, then you have, in my eyes, earned the right to have a go at making fun of them.
My tri team have been very supportive of my training, and this humbles me. Please keep this in mind, we are all just athletes and we have to stick together.
Sisu: a Finnish term meaning strength of will, determination, perseverance, and acting rationally in the face of adversity.
I respect the fitness triathletes have, and there are some who can ride comfortably and safely in a pack, but those seem to be the exception, not the rule.
Adding to what niek said, many triathletes seem to view the swim as an almost unnecessary hurdle instead of a valid sport.
I have triathlete friends, but I'm not overly interested in competing in one at this point.
-1 @Suits_v_Skins
I love ows I'm not in the league of you guys on here distance wise (hopefully I will address that in the next 2 months) but I swim year round in the sea and I love partaking in triathlons. Nearly all my local ow swimmers snear a little when they see me put on my wetsuit for a "long" swim, even though they all know I can swim as well as most and better than lots of them with or without my wetsuit.
I wear a wetsuit to allow me to swim longer earlier and later each season, I take it off when the water warms a little and also when it gets so cold that I can only splash and dash.
I just don't get the problem, I never hear tri people slagging off ow swimmers or slagging cyclists or runners but you do hear it coming the other way?
Can anyone explain why that is?
Is this not a result of health and safety gone mad in modern society and the organizers being worried about being sued? As well as suit manufacturers money.
If they were that much safer, then you would expect a better fatality record from triathlons, wouldn't you? This goes back to @Niek's pint about learning to swim properly.
If someone organizing a swim or triathlon or any event for that matter is not seen to take all reasonable precautions they can be held liable for reasons of negligence. So they all go over the top trying to protect themselves by insisting on wetsuits or cancelling events at the first sign of a wave etc.
Different countries different laws but it's hard to argue that most societies arnt getting more and more litigious in these areas.
@timsroot there are rude people in lots of walks of life, who ever said your focus was too one dimensional was being at best inconsiderate and probably just up themselves.
By the way I think what you guys do is amazing and inspiring.
Safety is not the issue in my opinion, ass covering as a result of health and safety legislation and laws is the issue.
being seen to have taken all possible step to ensure safety of those for whom you have a duty of care is pretty priceless if you wind up in a court accused of negligence.
I have no idea about fatalities or injuries in either ows or triathlon.
Sisu: a Finnish term meaning strength of will, determination, perseverance, and acting rationally in the face of adversity.
That goes both ways, I think. I've picked up a decent amount of disrespect from triathletes because I "only" compete in one sport.
But it is what it is. I don't swim to make friends, although I've made dear friends in this sport. I don't race for prizes, although they can be nice. I don't expect people to understand why I want to swim such long swims in such cold water without a wetsuit. People seem to dismiss me as a crazy person, and most days, I'm okay with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KTEgLKhjIwI hope the link works.
Sisu: a Finnish term meaning strength of will, determination, perseverance, and acting rationally in the face of adversity.
We give each other crap, good natured joshing about their fear of water below 76* and my lack of running ability.
I've made it clear in the past my problems with triathletes in triathlete-organized OW swims. But what do I expect? I entered those races knowing full well I'd be swimming with skinny endurance junkies who see no problem with resting on kayaks, swimming with pull buoys or walking shallow sections of a 4k race.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
This is an interesting point though Niek. I think that as a hobby triathlete it is difficult to get really good in all the disciplines, and so you focus on that which is easiest/faster to get faster in e.g. the bike. Swimming is so complex and it takes dedicated time to get good at, and if you learn it as an adult, even harder.
Sisu: a Finnish term meaning strength of will, determination, perseverance, and acting rationally in the face of adversity.
Not kicking enough is BS, I barely kick at all. For my 25k, the only times i kicked were trading water to feed, and the last 400 meters or so. But, folks who run a lot do tend to have very poor ankle flexibility, which means that their kick does next to nothing, and maybe even inhibits progress
What? Now we triathletes are so stupid that we don't even know how to put on goggles?
gele kaart Niek!!!!!!!
Sisu: a Finnish term meaning strength of will, determination, perseverance, and acting rationally in the face of adversity.
In this piece of her column, she looks at the Boston bombings through a few different personal lenses and the whole things a really good read, but the line that got me thinking was this: "I would be ashamed to be invulnerable...Because whatever compassion we possess springs from our vulnerability."
Now I say this as someone whose mantra is "nothing about the sea can ever hurt me," and regularly put that to the test (yes, it has been invalidated many times, but I still go with it), as someone who inwardly sneers at those wetsuit weenies wearers, because I Just. Can't. Understand why they'd wear them! Of course I can't...because I'm as close to invulnerable in the water as one could ever hope to be. And many of you are, too.
Looking at my perceived invulnerability from this angle has finally helped me understand why I always take the same side in the wetsuit discussion. I want to proudly say I sympathize with both sides and it's all completely clear, but this is a big shift in perspective for me and that could take ages to come around to. I feel like I should have pondered this a bit more and shared with you the brainy breakthrough that will happen after reflecting on my vulnerabilities. However, I'd much rather share the spark with you than I would my own results. So, meditate on that while you're marathon swimming.
That said: 88F in a wetsuit? You gotta be joking!
I don't wear a wetsuit; it gives the ocean a sporting chance.
1) Racing triathlons is fun and the people are great.
2) The variety of training different disciplines is easier mentally to train for than marathon swimming is.
3) I have never done an IM distance race, but I still think I can talk critically about the sport. I was raised a Catholic so I can criticize the Church. Same rule.
4) If I went to see a triathlon and saw a marathon swimmer on the run leg, I'd probably criticize them.
5) I think if you can't easily swim the race distance in OW without assistance you have no business entering the race. The same rule applies to the bike. If you can't race the distance without falling off your bike you have no business being in the race.
6) I always wore a wetsuit for the speed gained. The only time I didn't was because race organizer said it was just under the cutoff temperature. Probably .01° below the no wetsuit cutoff. I missed a top 10 out of the water because everyone else wore one.
7) I never trained in my wetsuit, probably in part because I rarely train in OW. Just too much travel time (except I just found a place close) and I find training with a clock is a better workout for me. If I lived near the ocean I'd be in all the time, but a lake? It's just a pool without lane lines. :-)
Sisu: a Finnish term meaning strength of will, determination, perseverance, and acting rationally in the face of adversity.
They also balk when I give them the following workout:
5 x 100:
1: twice per 50 flip over and do 5 strokes on your back;
2: twice per 50 flip over and do one-arm back for 3 strokes, (left down, right back);
3: as above but with your non stroking arm, hold your goggle cup (one-arm stroke with left, then hold the right goggle cup with your right hand, etc);
4: as above, but this time lift the goggle cup up, tilt your head to drain water;
5: as per #1 above, or: as #4 above but fill the left cup with water on first 50, fill right cup on second 50.
You cannot believe the outrage when I recommend they fill one side of their goggles with water to simulate a leaky pair!
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Sisu: a Finnish term meaning strength of will, determination, perseverance, and acting rationally in the face of adversity.
Seriously, @Dawn_Treader, I feel for you. I've had weird experiences with triathletes in OW swims. So, now I coach them hoping to rub off good technique ("Do as I say, not as I do!") and lane etiquette and respect for open water on them.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Sisu: a Finnish term meaning strength of will, determination, perseverance, and acting rationally in the face of adversity.
Inthepocket, since you asked, there is a very specific reason for the ruling, last year a triathlete died in SF after diving in the water and going into cardiac arrest. This sparked a movement to put limits on temps. According to the SF Chronicle
"In all, rescuers pulled about 150 swimmers from the swim portion of the race, more than three times the normal number, Burke said. Water temperatures were about 51 degrees, air temperatures hovered in the mid-50s and 11-mph winds made the air feel closer to the mid-40s. Normally, when the race is held in June, the bay is anywhere from 54 to 60 degrees, and air temperatures can be in the 70s or higher."
I think it's common knowledge that many triathletes come to the race unprepared for the swim. I don't think 1% of the participants were prepared for a swim that cold, with or without a wetsuit. Legal implications aside, supposed general wimpiness of triathletes aside, that race organizer has to live many more years thinking about that man. There are many different sides to the story, but what resonates with me is that an organizer can feel pressure to go forward - financial pressure, sponsor pressure, athlete pressure - when it might not be best for all involved. These rules take the pressure off, and can possibly save lives.
I've done a few triathlons but pretty much quit after doing a half IM in about 100 degree weather. I don't normally run to the corner store in 100 degrees, but I showed up for a race, opened the car door, and almost cried at the blistering heat. I was told it would be hot. But not this hot. My age group went last, and I got off the bike at... 12:30pm. I started to run but could only jog/walk the rest of the 13 miles. I had to step over bodies that had passed out (help was on the way I was told). I was passed by women who should never be passing me. They were fast walking, much more efficient than jog/walk I guess. I'm just now realizing that was probably the day I stopped making fun of triathletes. (despite participating I never considered myself one of them, or else I would have been making fun of myself!)