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How fast do you need to be to swim _________?
dc_in_sf
San FranciscoCharter Member
As a slower swimmer, one of the challenges I have in picking any event with a cutoff is determining whether or not I am fast enough to make the cutoff. Many events (Boston Light, MIMS, Swim The Suck etcetera) have local conditions that make it hard to translate a pool speed to an actual in water speed over the course. I also know first hand that a 10km in the ocean is a heck of a lot different to a 10km in a lake.
I signed up for Swim The Suck this year partly because through reading @IronMike 's blog I know I have a somewhat similiar speed and he successfully swam it last year.
Conditions vary year over year, but I know that I would personally find it helpful to hear from the some of the "less swift" members of the forums about successes or failures (just as important IMHO) they have had with swims that have cutoffs.
To get the ball rolling:
My pool swim speed:
3km/h in LCM, 2mph in SCY
The Swim:
Rottnest Channel Swim. 19.7km effective 11 hour cutoff for solo'ists.
Result:
9h10m. Did 4h10m for the first 10km, definitely slowed down in the second half, conditions were more challenging but fatigue was probably a factor as well. Did not have my GPS running so don't know what the actual distance covered was.
I signed up for Swim The Suck this year partly because through reading @IronMike 's blog I know I have a somewhat similiar speed and he successfully swam it last year.
Conditions vary year over year, but I know that I would personally find it helpful to hear from the some of the "less swift" members of the forums about successes or failures (just as important IMHO) they have had with swims that have cutoffs.
To get the ball rolling:
My pool swim speed:
3km/h in LCM, 2mph in SCY
The Swim:
Rottnest Channel Swim. 19.7km effective 11 hour cutoff for solo'ists.
Result:
9h10m. Did 4h10m for the first 10km, definitely slowed down in the second half, conditions were more challenging but fatigue was probably a factor as well. Did not have my GPS running so don't know what the actual distance covered was.
http://notdrowningswimming.com - open water adventures of a very ordinary swimmer
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It's often really hard to extrapolate to longer distances anyway but there are so many variables but I swim about 3.6 to 3.9 in SCM pool, and I'd estimate that results in 3k per hour open water but then with a further sped drop somewhere around 5 or 6 hours.
loneswimmer.com
Recently did a 10k where the course was set up much more against the current than with and did a tad over 3:00
I'm with you. Cutoffs scare me. Mostly because I'm a cheap bastard and if I'm going to spend the money for the swim, and the transpo to get there and the hotel to sleep off the apres-swim beer, then I want to finish. Races/swims like the Sri Chinmoy (26.4k) in Switzerland are on my bucket list. The cut-off for that race is 12 hours. While that sounds fine for 26+ km, the info sheet does say it is equivalent of 30 pool km. If I could maintain 3kph (doubtful) that means 10 hours. But I'll probably slow down. I'd hate to go all the way to get a DNF simply because I missed the cut-off (but was still strong enough to swim).
Also like you dc_in_sf, I signed up for END-Wet this year based on someone else's review of last year's race. The beauty of that is if the race sucks or you don't finish it, you can always blame the other guy, right @Leonard_Jansen?
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Are you doing the 5 coves of death tomorrow? We could have a swim-off.
I'm also "slow" (it's all relative!) and got pulled from MIMS my first time. But there was unusual flooding and a late start that day and I've been back and done it twice, although way at the end of the finishers. At the time I was about a 3hr 20 or slower for a 10k..though they all vary. I'm about 24-25 minutes for a 1650 pool yds swim.
You'll be fine for Swim the Suck!! I did it in 2010 about 45 min quicker than last year, but either way you get some kind of current assist. I think IronMike and I were only a few minutes apart in 2012 Suck
I Swam the Suck last year in 5+01 with the smallest current assist they've ever had for that event. They didn't even enforce the cutoff. I think the last finisher came in at 7+00.
I stressed out about that cutoff for the entire time I was training for the event. I even opted to wait a year to do it so that I could try to get faster. A lot of pointless worry, it turns out. My advice would be for you not to give that cut-off a second thought.
www.WaterGirl.co
AZ Open Water Swimming on Facebook
I should mention that the Rottnest cutoff is particularly generous to solo swimmers because the last of the relays leave 1h45m after the unseeded soloists and they share the same absolute cutoff time (5pm). To be honest for Rottnest I wasn't worried about the cutoff but did want to include it as a data point.
http://notdrowningswimming.com - open water adventures of a very ordinary swimmer
I get the feeling that I should take an inventory of the people I talked into doing END-WET and see how we stack-up, size-wise, in case I have to fight my way out and make a run for the airport.
-LBJ
“Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess.” - Oscar Wilde
I'm signed up in large part because of your glowing review of last year's swim. Buy if my training is less than what it should be, that is my fault, not yours.
Molly Nance, Lincoln, Nebraska
"I never met a shark I didn't like"
Generally speaking, current-assisted swims will be more favorable to slower swimmers, while variable, unpredictable, or head currents will be more favorable to faster swimmers. In a multi-participant setting, current-assist will condense the field relative to their current-neutral speeds, while head currents will spread out the field even further than in a current-neutral setting.
On the basis of these generalizations, here is a proposed ranking of prominent marathon swims, sorted according to "friendliness" to slower vs. faster swimmers:
[slow swimmer friendly]
Swim the Suck
Ederle Swim
8 Bridges (for sake of simplicity, I know the stages vary)
MIMS
Santa Barbara Channel (Anacapa)
Catalina Channel
Tampa Bay
Gibraltar
Lake Tahoe (lengthwise)
Santa Barbara Channel (Santa Cruz)
In Search of Memphre
English Channel
Farallones (E to W)
Santa Barbara Channel (Santa Rosa)
Santa Barbara Channel (San Miguel)
Farallones (W to E)
[slow swimmer unfriendly]
Feedback welcome!
I was started early in the final stage of 8 Bridges last year (thank you David Barra!), and made it, but I think there is at least one stage of that swim that I'd have to wear fins and a wetsuit (hehe) to make.
As I've said many times: Rondi is the brains of our operation, and should get the credit for tide, current, and swimmer speed calculations.... I lift heavy objects (whether or not they need to be lifted)
...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
I'll start since I've done a few international swims. I'd put Dart 10k right up there with StS.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
http://notdrowningswimming.com - open water adventures of a very ordinary swimmer
Is the Farallon Islands at the very bottom of the list because you have more chance of being eaten than finishing the swim?
I'm guessing it's the cold that'll get the slower swimmer on that one, more so going W to E. W to E so much easier on the slower swimmers, because then the main factor is just out swimming the critters.
Going W to E a swimmer must time the tide cycle so the approach to the GG is not on a flood tide strong enough to overpower the swimmer. For a slower swimmer, the margin of error is that much smaller.
Going to E to W, one can ride the ebb, and if it's strong you'll be shot out of the GG like a cannon. However, if the swimmer isn't fast enough to get far enough out before the flood tide kicks in -- it's over.
Cold & predators are just icing on the cake.
current-assisted
Swim the Suck
Ederle Swim
8 Bridges
MIMS
Tsugaru the long way
current-neutral or mild wind currents
Tahoe
Memphre
cross currents
Catalina Channel (weak)
Maui Channel (medium)
Gibraltar (strong)
English Channel (very strong)
Tsugaru the short way (very strong)
variable currents
Tampa Bay (weak push, then weak head current if you're too slow)
Santa Barbara Channel (generally unpredictable; stronger the further north you go)
Cook Strait
Farallones - E to W
Farallones - W to E
Not sure where to put Molokai or North Channel; don't know enough about them.
loneswimmer.com
My goal is Boston Light for 2016, so I'd like to get a feel for whether that's "slow-swimmer friendly" or "slow swimmer, you're positively toast"--
Since I did the Great South Bay Swim (5.4 miles) this past Aug. in 3:41, I know I need more time to improve my speed: a calculator check shows 41 mins/avg per mile for that distance, so I'd need to average 37 mins. per mile to make the cut-off.
GSB has a cut-off of four hours and typically has a current assist for the first 2-3 miles (doesn't really go against you after that but can get choppy, as I've experienced 2 of the 3 times I did it). This past year, I understand, the first 20 mins. or so had us going against the current--but I don't remember feeling as if I was fighting it all that much.
If I need to readjust my goal, so be it, but I have a special place in my heart for Boston having been born there. In 1996, I ran the Boston Marathon (qualified in 1995), and so why not another Boston Marathon 20 years later?
Thanks for any thoughts.
Since this is definitely a one-shot deal, I'm looking to give myself the best chance possible to finish.
My other question is whether others--especially older swimmers--have successfully taken off as much time per mile as I need to and how you succeeded in doing so. I'm working with a masters' team plus swimming on my own. Both coaches of this team are experienced distance swimmers and so they're giving me some valuable tips and help. But am I too much the proverbial "sow's ear" from which a silk purse can't be made? I don't know, but I love the team and value their input, so nothing is wasted.
Swimming speed is about 80-85% determined by your technique, so work on that constantly as you build your mileage. Find out if your coaches do 1:1 personal coaching. If your masters coaches aren't able to schedule personal coaching sessions, ask the pool management if they have any instructors on staff who specialize in adults/triathletes/OW/competitive coaching. It will be well worth the money. Even 30 minutes of critical feedback every few weeks will help you become more efficient.
If you're on a budget, have a friend take video of you, then compare it to video of elite distance swimmers. Look at your body position and streamline, (think rowing shell, not rubber raft). Think about how your profile looks from the front, how much water are you pushing ahead of you or how large of a "pipe" are you swimming through? Notice how elite swimmers drive their stroke from the core and everything else is perfectly in sync, with no wasted motion.
Practice your drills (ask your coaches which ones will benefit you the most) both when you are fresh and when you are tired. When I feel tired and sloppy late in a long swim, I concentrate on my technique for a few minutes, which usually results in feeling better and going faster.
It takes time to change bad habits to good ones and to make those changes your "default" setting. Making changes to your stroke will feel weird at first, but "feel" for the water is what it's all about. Be patient with yourself and visualize yourself as the smoother, more efficient swimmer you want to be. <:-P
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
I also like the suggestion (as an add-on to the video now on my computer) to compare it to footage of elite swimmers.
I'm interested in your term "pipe"--would you be able to share a video that demonstrates what this means? (Sorry, I'm an adult onset swimmer, so although I'm picking up a lot of terminology, there are gaps in my education.
Today and two weeks ago, I did the USMS one-hour postal swim--and in today's swim I did 150 yards more than two weeks ago. I owe this partly to reminding myself of the tips the coaches gave me about hand entry, completing a stroke, keeping elbows high, etc.--and partly to the pace work the coach had me doing in Thur. night's practice. I find sometimes I have to watch that I don't go from aerobic to sprint and find those middle gears, not full out but harder than aerobic. (Interesting too that the same week during a running hill workout, the coach had us run two sets of 70, 80, and 90 percent effort on a hill of about 500m. I may have taken that practice into the swim with me as well. He had reminded us that the easiest effort wasn't jogging but something we could sustain for ten miles.)
I'm grateful that there's hope for this old dog learning new tricks.