Cross-training?

This has been touched on some in other discussions, but I'm nosy enough to start a separate thread about it. I'm curious about any cross-training people do. What do you do, and what do you get out of it? How does it help your swim training?
I'll start, since I started. Right now I'm swimming 4 days a week, for about 23,000 yards total. I run 3 days a week, between 15 and 20 miles total. I run because frankly I don't want to swim every day, but I do want to exercise every day. Running rests my upper body but gives me a tough workout (it's hilly around here). I feel ready to get back in the pool or open water after a run day. I feel good about myself for running 6, 8, 10, 13.1 miles. Feeling physically and mentally rested from swimming makes me a better swimmer. I swim harder because I *want* to.
OK, enough about me.
I'll start, since I started. Right now I'm swimming 4 days a week, for about 23,000 yards total. I run 3 days a week, between 15 and 20 miles total. I run because frankly I don't want to swim every day, but I do want to exercise every day. Running rests my upper body but gives me a tough workout (it's hilly around here). I feel ready to get back in the pool or open water after a run day. I feel good about myself for running 6, 8, 10, 13.1 miles. Feeling physically and mentally rested from swimming makes me a better swimmer. I swim harder because I *want* to.
OK, enough about me.

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As for me, my cross-training right now is pretty much just walking. I try to hit at least 10,000 steps a day, which for me is somewhere in the 4-4.5 mile range. I'd like to add weights 2x per week, but just can't keep it consistent. Perhaps at my next job.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
I swim 7x/week, and I'm supposed to do yoga 3-4 times per week. I'm doing more like 6x per week right now on the yoga because a.) I am insane and b.) my yoga studio is having a contest where you get a free month if you do 25 classes in 30 days. It is impossible for me to resist a challenge like that. Any competition that requires effort but not skill, I'm in. I'll be happy when the 30 days are up, though.
My rest day is a 1500-yard easy swim once per week. Followed by an all-out sprint to my car to get to yoga on time.
www.WaterGirl.co
AZ Open Water Swimming on Facebook
I think StS will require effort...so you and I are good!
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
- Free weights, once a week.
- Bands & core, twice a week.
That's what I aim for, anyway. Sometimes I fall short.
In the not-fully-immersed but not-quite-dryland category, I've been really coveting a stand-up paddleboard. Unfortunately a good one costs almost as much as a channel swim.
Evmo, I would love to try paddleboarding. Maybe this summer. (On a rental.)
http://www.eatonsurf.com/UsedPaddleboardsRedux.htm
...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
"I never met a shark I didn't like"
Currently, I do a gym workout twice a week which consists of light weights (shoulders, back, and some PT exercises), band work, and a core circuit. I was running once a week with @Mmead but our schedules haven't been matching up lately so I've been hiking instead (although I'd like to restart our runs!). I also do yoga at least once a week, which I agree, @watergirl, helps mentally as much as anything.
When I slack off on the gym workouts during high volume swim training is when my shoulder gets aggravated, so for me the gym (specifically PT/shoulder stuff) is a prerequisite to my swim training. Unless I look at it that way, it doesn't get done. The other things are supplemental; helpful, but if it comes down to a swim v. yoga/run/etc., swimming wins.
http://www.jenschumacher.org
Thanks to everyone for the help.
Re coordination and technique, it's pretty similar to swimming imo, there a long gliding phase and you notice it immediatly (becoming super speedy!) when you get the arm-leg coordination right. Plus you have different styles, just like swimming strokes.
It's also very fun, I would get bored running only 40 minutes or so, whereas 2-3 hours of skiing seemed to pass very quickly.
Sylle - EC Fly 2013 [Video]
After 10 months I took two months off weights and increased the volume to about 45k a week. I got significantly faster and the volume came much easier. Now I am back in the weight room 2 x week and have increased my volume to 50k. Swimming feels good, but I do have a bit of tendonitis in my elbow.
I hope to steadily increase the volume through April, but at some point something has to go, so it will be the weights. So far, I’m a believer in functional strength training. I’m not big on throwing heavy dumbbells around. My program integrates a large range of full body movements with an emphasis on the core. As a has been triathlete I am a big believer in cross-training.
nvr2late: Love all the triathlons! My husband is a triathlete; it's a great sport. I don't think I can manage a full marathon (knees), but I'm actually guaranteed a spot in the 2013 NYC marathon. We'll see how it goes. Good luck with all your training and events.
Sylle: I tried cross-country skiing once and thought it was great. Totally can see how it helps your swimming. Would love to try it again.
Pablo: Just reading your workout regimen makes me tired. Awesome. I probably should hit the weights more. I'm inspired.
Thanks, everybody, for the great comments.
I've got a similar, though less hardcore, regimen. I'm doing three swims a week for a total of about 15,000 yards, plus three runs a week for about 20 miles per week. Hard to find time in my schedule for more. Like njoy, the alternation between legs and shoulders/arms seems to work for me. I do a half marathon per month so that I have an event to look forward to. Currently working up to doing Anacapa --> Oxnard, but I have a ways to go on volume and have done very little cold water acclimatization. Good to have dreams, I guess. . .
And that is how I fell back into my running addiction.
I don't wear a wetsuit; it gives the ocean a sporting chance.
Swim 3 days - averaging close to 5000 yds per workout
Elipitical 2 days - 55 minutes at a high intensity
2 days of strength training/core work
I'm swimming a lot stronger now than I was 10 yrs ago. It could be the weight I've lost or that I'm in better condition or both. I was commneting to a lane mate last week that I'm amazed that in the last two years, what I thought of as barely makeable time intervals have now become almost like recovery swims and time intervals that were unmakeable are now comfortable.
I have just been posted to a place ( Kabul - what was I thinking...) where I wonder if over the next two years I will get any swimming done at all ( longest pool = 15 m & half a dozen checkpoints and security checks on the way to get there & invitation only...).
My only realistic training options for the next two years here will be mainly a reasonably well equipped weight room (dumbbells, barbell bench, smith machine, kettlebells, ...) and some cardio equipment ( running, crosstrainer, rowing, spinning bikes).
I have started a strength program ( Stronglifts 5 x5) complemented with some core work, and am actually enjoying it more than I thought I would. But making it fit one's marathon swimming ambitions is more difficult.
Some questions to get some advice from fellow swimmers:
@ all: does anybody have any personal experience with/ ideas for keeping up one's long distance swimming shape by training with weights and other gym equipment not as a complement, but actually as the main part of one's training for long periods of time?
Suggestions for suitable body weight and kettlebell exercises also most welcome. Earlier comments provide some useful guidance, but anything more detailed, esp. own experiences, and detailed programmes are welcome. I hope to be able to do anywhere between 6- 10 session per week.
@Sylle: if cross-country skiiing is such good support, do you think a cross trainer would have the same effect?
Looking forward to getting some good advice, on this forum or through direct contact. My private email is mvgchannelswim@gmail.com.
Cheers all!
Milko
https://db.marathonswimmers.org/p/milko-van-gool/
If you do have a pool, even one only 15m (I swam for 3 years in the US Embassy in Moscow in a 15m pool, and did my first marathon swim on that training), you could always get one of those belts that you can attach yourself to a ladder and "swim in place" at one end of the pool.
Or just get used to doing a lot of flip-turns.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Sylle - EC Fly 2013 [Video]
I like running because I enter 5Ks and the competition is just fun and social, instead of the pressure I've always put on my swimming. I also started coaching cross country..which is actually closer to OW than swimming in many ways (plus, I'm kinda done with the pool..,including coaching a meet again).
My overall schedule...when a swim is far away ("early in the season") I'll run 3-4 times a week and swim 4-5, including one OW. 30,000 yards and 15 miles running. At the peak of training, like now, I swim 9x week (3 are just short mornings..I am at 45-50,000 yards for the next month but it will peak at 60) and TRY to get out to door for one run. I add in some boring abs too.
I actually really stick to what I learned in college, with dryland and workout intensity being inversely proportional.
So far when I go with her, we do ~5 sets of each exercise. We'll do some smaller things on the side, like good mornings (with a light weight), pull-ups (she's a monster) and sometimes dips. But other than that, just swimming. God, if I had more time, I'd just add more swimming! I can't get enough of that in my week as it is, the last thing I need or can do is add another sport!
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
I am just finishing my first season of marathon swimming. I did my first 12 and 14 k this year, one of them being my first real crossing (beautiful Lake Constance) last Monday. I loved it and think I am completely hooked now, what a great sport!
For next year I am planning on distances around 20-25 k and I know, I will have to increase my weekly distance in the water over the winter. Because of unfortunate limits (pool times, mostly) I was planning to start some cross training, too. I will continue to do some light core- and shoulder-workout 2-3 times a week, but that doesn’t really help with the distance problem and the necessity to do some of my basic endurance work outside the water. Since I strongly dislike every form of running or walking and think off my bike not as a piece of sports equipment, but something, that gets me from point A to point B, I was thinking of rowing (indoor mostly). I really liked it during my time at the university, where I practised it just for fitness and fun. So here are my two basic questions:
1) How much of the basic endurance workout (heartrate up to 140/150) can you transfer out of the water so it adds to the basic endurance workout in swimming? This season around 70 % of my swimming was basic endurance and it really paid off during my longer swims this year. For next pool season I was planning to add 3-4 times of rowing per week to compensate for the fact, that it is impossible to increase the distance in the water accordingly.
2) Are there any risks or disadvantages in the swimming/rowing-combination that I need to be aware of, like: Is it maybe “too much of the same”?
Thanks!
In the winter, I telemark ski as well, and chaperone my son's homeschool ski group so get to ski on a very regular basis. The telemark definitely helps with the quad strength but the swimming is what helps the other sports the most.
Last winter, we went to Aspen for a week of skiing and while I have generally suffered from pretty intense altitude issues, I had nothing. I think my lung capacity has been greatly changed by upping my swim distances. I was so grateful to be without the headaches and cough that I've typically had there.
My wife is a dedicated weight-lifter, and she's often told me she'd love to see how much I'd improve if I lifted regularly. So I think my cross-training for the next 2-3 years will be my full-time training for the next 2-3 years.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
So, been through almost a year here and came to some conclusions:
a) Swimming will be primarily April - Sept/Oct for me, in my little 10m long pool, wearing straps around my ankles, swimming in place.
b) Weights continue, but with no real regularity.
c) There is orienteering here, something I took up several years ago when I was stationed in Monterey (no, I didnt' know about marathon swimming then and boy how I'd love to go back and start that assignment over, and swim with the Kelp Krawlers). There's not a lot of orienteering, but enough to make my off-season fun. First meet in May. Then nothing again until late August.
d) The skiing here is CHEAP. And awesome. On the east side of Lake Issyk Kul is a ski area where the former Soviet Union Olympic ski team would train. The mountains are scary steep. (I'm a professional snow-plowing skier.) The family and I skiied maybe 5 times this winter, and would have more but our car didn't arrive in country until Christmas. Skiing for the day, including top of the line equipment (boots, skis, poles) and lift pass is about $20 a person. Not bad to ski peaks in the 2500-3500m elevations!
So, that's my cross-training, at least for the next couple years. Who knows where they'll send me next. Perhaps I'll get lucky and get assigned somewhere with OW swimming close by!
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
So, I started CrossFit before I picked swimming up again and I LOVE it. I have only had a few open water swims (including swimming around Key West) since I have started swimming and doing CrossFit.
I was CrossFitting 4-5 times a week and swimming twice a week until March. I am now only CrossFitting twice a week and swimming 4-5 times a week. My longest swim this season is only 9 miles. Next year I will swim the Tampa Bay Marathon and I know I will need to bump the swimming up even more.
I don't know anyone who does CrossFit and marathon swimming but I do have friends who CrossFit and do ultra marathons and Race Across America (the bike race from California to MD)
It will all be a huge experiment but I love CrossFit too much to totally wipe it out of my schedule!
I found that running and lifting weights was somewhat detrimental to what I was doing in the water. 13 years ago I was training with lots of running to get ready for a 16 week police academy. I had the 2002 Tampa swim a out 3 weeks before the academy started. I noticed the more I ran and did dry,and, the worse I felt in the water and slower I went. I decided to cut all of that other stuff out for a few week prior to the race. Training picked back up and I had a great swim that day. The running and all the other PT nonsense that went back with it got started up again right away. I'm horribly out if shape now and would use running and yoga to help get me back into shape. Once swimming was back in play, I stick 100% to the water as time is now a premium.
Had a sort of similar experience to swimmer25k. I was training for an actual running marathon, and using swimming as cross training, but still doing open water events. Over the year I found my sim times getting slower and slower no matter what I did. It may have been that the body fat was really low, and I did have trouble getting my hips up in the water, or just that I was really tired. Currently, I'm mostly swimming, but also doing specific weights and dry land to try to condition some stuff that got not conditioned during my injury/surgery/recovery. I think if you target the things that need improvement cross training can really help.
Even though this is an old thread, I find it helpful. Between running, and cross-country skiing (at least when we're not rained out!), I've just started doing "yoga for swimmers". There are a bunch of great youtube videos out there. Just because I find it overwhelming sorting out the good from the not-so-good (and suspect others do too), I have enjoyed this 30min video:
Hoping the cross training, and yoga, will keep me strong and reduce my risk of injuries as I build up to swim like the dolphins may of you are!
Happy (cross) training!
I was actually surprised at the amount of people that don't include any sort of weight training in their program. I am coming to marathon swimming from a background in wrestling and bodybuilding so weight lifting has always been a huge emphasis. I did my first Ironman 70.3 last year and this year I am doing my first 10km swim. I feel like other than the obvious strength benefits from weightlifting there is a huge durability aspect that I think a lot of marathon swimmers are missing.
I am not sure how this community feels about Ross Edgley but he has been a huge inspiration for me because I have a similar body type. He often comments that the amount of muscle mass is a big advantage in swimming because the effects of gravity are not nearly as drastic as they are in running or cycling.
My weight lifting routine has changed quite a bit. I no longer do body building exercises. Most of my weight lifting is compound movements, like deadlift, push/press, and squatting. I also incorporate a ton of Kettlebell work. Having a strong back makes for such a more efficient pull and allows me to not get my arms as tired because I am pulling with my back. Yoga and other cardio equipment such as the rower would be huge for helping swimming.
I have never used this machine but I would think the mechanics of a Ski-Erg machine would be HUGELY helping for swimmers.
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I am not sure about that.. More muscels also means more drag, muscles also sink and consume more energy.. In my opinion to much mass is a disadvantage for marathon swimming.. i see a lot of value in cross training to gain strength and prevent injuries but i wouldn't like to get huge muscles for distance swimming.
More drag? The argument is in longer distances, I am not saying have big, bulky, nonfunctional muscle mass. But if your a very skinny ectomorph, adding 10 lbs of muscle mass will help because you can store more muscle glycogen for longer periods of exercise and it also aids in insulating your body and organs in colder water. There are clearly advantages and disadvantages because you do sink more if your heavily muscled but if were talking about long open water swims, I think that a little extra muscle mass will aid in these types of swims.
I used a ski erg once (my gym at the time was having a "how fast can you ski erg 1K meters?" challenge) - it was a ton of fun and definitely catered to my strengths as a swimmer. I placed solidly at the middle of the pack despite never having used one before AND I was literally in my first month back to working out after a very extended break. I would get one for cross training except I don't really _need _one (I already have a treadmill, and my mom lives upstairs and owns a rowing machine, and I own a bike I don't use anymore...)
Just take a look at Ross Edgely stage swimming round GB. Unit of a man.
Yes, impressive swim around GB. He is a real strong man but I don't see him as a good swimmer in terms of pure efficiency. I think his feat has more to do with incredible endurance, strength and will power then swimming ability. He also has done a Ironman carrying a huge log, still he will never be a good marathon runner or a good cyclist if you get my point..... Don't take me wrong, but I think to be an efficient swimmer he is way too big.. all the bodybuilders I meet in the pool swim like a brick.
I found this video of him training also in the pool. I couldn't figure out the pace, but seemed to have a respectable rhythm/ technique. Indeed he seems to be less flexible, for obvious/ expected
reasons.
. In my perception he is only set to do wow things , not to be 100th out of 400th swimmers in a public event. Nothing bad... just his personal preference.

I think he could do a respectable skins effort, but does not seem to have this in his record breaking objectives
Where he is great I think is at taking the pain and preparation, I read his book and was impressed by his knowledge.
Back on the "cross training", I started integrating 1 strength training (small weights, TRX, abs work etc) and 1 stretching session in my weekly training, and I am very happy with the results, so far. Less core pain at turning in 25 m pools, improved position, less shoulder stress etc.