Thoughts On Kicking?

I have a question about stroke mechanics that I am hoping some of you can answer! So I have a very kick-driven stroke, which I know is kind of rare and not ideal for long distance swimming. I generally keep a 6-beat kick going for all of my pool events and shorter (5k or less) OW swims. I have been told that trying to maintain this for 7-8 hours is counterproductive/a waste of energy, if not impossible. On the flip side, I have also heard that my kick helps keep me warm, and I'm kind of a cold water wimp (like MIMS will be a cold water swim for me haha). Since I've never swum this far before, I would love any advice on whether I should focus more of my efforts on trying to develop a more energy-efficient and upper-body driven stroke, or whether I should work on my kick more with the hopes that I can keep it up the whole time? Thanks!
Comments
Always take advice given over the internet with a grain of salt, but.... my inclination would be to "be yourself." You've probably been swimming since you were quite young, right? I think swimmers who start early often naturally develop strokes that are suited to their bodies - that take advantage of strengths, and de-emphasize weak points.
In your case, as you developed as a swimmer, apparently a natural 6-beat kick emerged - which you use even in distance events. If a 6-beat kick comes naturally to you, that's probably how you're most efficient in the water. (I wouldn't make this assumption with an adult-onset swimmer.)
In my case, I've always had a strong upper body & shoulders, combined with weak hips - so I naturally developed a pull-heavy stroke.
The people who say a 6-beat kick is counterproductive for a marathon swim are probably people who don't have natural 6-beat kicks. For them, holding a 6-beat kick for 7-8 hours is impossible. For you, it might not be. For you, it might actually be most efficient.
But the only way to find out is to do a long training swim with your typical 6-beat kick, and see how it goes. If your normal mile-strength kick becomes too tiring, perhaps try a somewhat lighter kick, while still maintaining the 6-beat rhythm.
Let us know how it goes!
...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
A 6-bk would be unusual for a 7-hour swim - perhaps even impossible for most people.
I agree with Mr. Barra that it's useful to have multiple "arrows in your quiver" (a @Kaizen_Swimmer phrase, yes?), to deal with different conditions and different states of fatigue.
Very few could pull off a 6-bk for MIMS... but @swimmergirl23 might be one. She's been quite successful with her current stroke.
I'd be wary of messing with itI would absolutely advise against messing with it 3 months out.Seriously, though, I am one of those adult-onset swimmers that Evan mentions. I do a two-beat kick, unless I'm about to finish or pass or just starting, when I do a 6-beat. I like to kick the hell out of my legs at the end not really because I think I might finish in the top (which won't happen) but mostly because if I don't, then when I stand up at the end, I get all woozy. If I kick a lot at the end, the blood rushes to my legs and I am more able to stand w/o falling down!
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
While I in general agree with Evmo's "be yourself" sentiment, I think that kicking tends to limit those 6-beat kickers in ultra distance.
Consider that the best pool swimmers in the world are getting about 30% of their propulsion from their kick, even though the muscles in your legs are HUGE and using up 50%+ of your energy. These are the the guys and girls who can kick a 50 underwater no breath faster than you or I can sprint a 50 freestyle. Compare that to someone like me, who was the only person on my Div. I college swim team of 60 people allowed to wear zoomers for kick sets.
I've tried it all! I dragged my legs across the English Channel and have tried to hold a 6-beat kick for a 10k. What I found was that the less that I kick, the more I can redirect that energy to maintaining a higher stroke rate. I do kick some (i don't recommend treating your legs like dead weight) but as little as possible to keep my body position high. I kick more in freshwater than salt (buoyancy), and more in cold water than warm (when the water is warm, I'm in danger of overheating if I kick).
While my theories may not work for you, one thing does work for everyone: experimentation. Take some time to play around a bit and see for yourself!
Don't even get me started with how much I practice bilateral breathing and then what happens when I race...subject for another discussion.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Everyone is different. I would say that if kicking works for you, why fix it if it ain't broke?
Experimenting is always good tho (except before an event). I'd like to take a couple of years of kick practice to make up my mind about whether kicking does anything to help me on any distance over a mile. Bottom line is, I really enjoy my stroke and swim style, so I don't really care if it's an oddity to not kick.
loneswimmer.com
Hadn't thought of training for this. I guess during such a long swim you would have several feelings going through your head.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
loneswimmer.com
I am looking to do my first 10 miler this summer and have a similar kick dominant stroke. I am one of those swimmers that @mmead alluded to who can kick a 50 underwater faster than I am able to sprint a 50 on top. When I do pull sets in my workouts, taking my kick away normally equates to about a 3-6 second per 100 yard drop in my speed since my upper body is so weak. While I don't want to kick too hard and burn out my legs half way through my race, I am also afraid that dropping my kick down to a 2 beat kick might cause me to over work my arms and be unable to finish the race.
Long story short, Abby didn't change her stroke, stayed with her natural 6-beat, and dominated MIMS. She doesn't directly address her kick in her race report, but you may be interested to read it:
http://marathonswimmers.org/blog/2012/07/guest-post-abby-nunn/
She's busy with med school so isn't around the forum much anymore, but you might try sending her a PM.
That's a great write up, and it sounds like she completed that swim with relative ease. Her story makes me very excited to one day take on MIMS myself. And it's good to know I don't really need to consider major changes to my form going forward.
Sometimes I switch to a 2 beat kick, but honestly it is more to play mind games with myself, like it feels like doing a different stroke for a little bit.
As far as using kicking to stay warm, I kick fast on my back holding onto my core for a little bit, or do really sloppy fly kick...that seems to get the circulation moving!! A regular free kick doesn't seem to do much.
Sorry to bring this topic back up, but I think there's good information provided already and don't want to start a new post. I grew up swimming with coaches who placed a heavy emphasis on kicking and I guess a 6 beat kick comes natural to me at this point. I was wondering if it would be more efficient to learn a 2 beat kick, or just keep my natural kicking rhythm but toning down the intensity for longer swims. I'm swimming a 20k in a few months and want to make sure I'm as efficient as possible.
That's the preferred way. Gold star for bumping interesting old threads!
Kicking in long-distance swimming is all about body position and balance (i.e., maintaining them). To some extent, the efficiency of a 2-beat vs. 6-beat depends on stroke tempo.
Below about 55 strokes per minute, there's a danger of a "dead spot" between the beats of a 2-beat kick. This can be seen in many TI-style swimmers, who are often coached to use a 2-beat kick AND reduce their tempo. In this case, more frequent kicking can help you maintain consistent balance / body position..
Above 75 SPM, and it can be tough to move your legs fast enough for a 6-beat kick, so a 2-beat may be preferable.
55 to 75 SPM (where many of us are) is a sort of neutral zone where you should experiment with all variants - 2-beat, 6-beat, or even a 4-beat.
A 4-beat kick means a 3+1 rhythm (kick-kick-kick-KICK ... kick-kick-kick-KICK). With the single kick timed with the breath.
I used to use a 3+1 kick, with the KICK timed not with the breath but right after the breath (I glided while breathing). Then I discovered the 2-beat, learnt it, and now it's what I use the most (even for sprints).
I use the 3+1 to avoid monotony, and to give my arms some rest. I use it as well in following seas (waves coming from behind), because in that case I can't get a right rolling balance with a 2-beat.
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