Good 10km time for aspiring channel swimmer
musclewhale89
Alberta, CanadaMember
Hey everyone!
I am doing my first 10km swim in a lake in two weeks and couldn't be more pumped!
My question is simple. Using a 10k swim as a gauge, what would be a good time over that distance before considering a channel swim?
What other metrics can you use before you sign up for a 20k+ channel swim?
Thanks All!
Comments
1.48.33 for 10k is fine!))
Will swim every chanel.sea.lake and river easy and relaxing!
With smile and joy!
My opinion!)
Health and good luck
Sheesh! Is that pace or time?
It's a time but it's not necessary to be able to swim at this pace to successfully cross a channel. Don't be put off.
I have heard that there are some channels which one must be able to swim at a certain speed to get across. Gibraltar Strait is the best known example. And I have also heard a rumour that North Channel (the 20 km route) also requires that. Therefore I have been put off swimming these channels until I come close to the 10k time mentioned above.
Yes, but the OP said a channel. There are plenty of others, Michael. I can't say that being a slow swimmer has ever stopped me from attempting everything which interests me. I won't lose any sleep over it.
1:48:33 for a 10 km swim is amazingly fast (1:05.1 per 100 m). It’s what it took to win the Men’s 10 k in Tokyo.
Interesting, and awe inspiring, but not relevant to any swimming I’m doing. Jackie Cobell’s EC crossing at 28+ hours is much more relatable. Swim until you’re done. Speed is lovely. I wish I had more. But it’s not necessary to do most marathon swims. Gotta have grit though.
Life begins at the end of your comfort zone. --Neale Donald Walsch
Yes I read it clearly that the OP said a channel rather than the Channel. Gibraltar Strait is a channel. North Channel is a channel. Therefore I believe both examples are valid.
Gibraltar is still in my bucket list despite I don't have interest in solo ultra-distance channel swimming in general because it is at a manageable distance, it can be done tandem, and most importantly it's geographically significant (from Europe to Africa) but I have really been put off because it clearly requires 3 km/h speed to qualify, which I can't do that now. However, if I continue to train for competitive marathon swimming that one day I come close to a 2-hour 10k, I will definitely return to swim it.
Unfortunately this doesn't apply to me because the marathon swims in my bucket list specifically require speed, e.g. Gibraltar. It is a fact that narrow channels create stronger current (just plain physics), and only narrow channels which are geographically significant interest me.
So to be able to swim the Straight of Gibraltar for example, you must be able to swim a minimum of 3km/hr?
This is mentioned in their website.
You may think the question is simple, but it's not. It depends on the swim, and it depends on your goal for the swim. To finish? Or to swim a fast time?
It increases your probability of success, for sure. The Cook Strait is another one where slower swimmers (sub-3 kph) will have a tough time. Not coincidentally, both of these swims have strong cross-currents. MOST other popular marathon swims are not like this - and depend far more on persistence and endurance than speed.
Michael, people have been kind to you on this forum, which speaks to the quality of the posters here. But you need a reality check. You are never, ever going to swim 2 hours for 10km. You probably will never swim sub-2.5 hours for that distance. It's just not going to happen at this point in your life.
Nobody swims sub 2 hours without a childhood competitive swimming background. And even most swimmers who swam competitively as children, don't have the physical gifts and technical skill to swim 2 hours for 10km.
You need to adjust your goals, or you will be consistently disappointed. It is not necessary to swim 2 hours for 10km to be successful in solo marathon swimming. Plenty of people with 3-hour, even 4-hour 10km paces, have successfully swum the English Channel.
I know that some slow swimmers can get across the English Channel therefore I picked it as the first swim to do in my bucket list. However, after the pandemic my speed dropped a lot and now I think I will need 4.5 hours or more for a 10 km.
I have mentioned Gibraltar as an example why I need to get my speed up even if I want to be successful in solo marathon swimming.
Can anyone confirm if it's also true in North Channel (20 km Mull of Kintyre route)? It was in my bucket list in the past but as North Channel is so cold so I don't think I'll do it anymore. The rumour I have heard is that I need 4 km/h to even have a chance in that.
My goal right from the beginning has been to be successful in competitive marathon swimming racing. Solo marathon swimming is supposed to be a side pursuit for me to complement my racing.
Maybe I shouldn't have said "simple" haha as I realize it is a nuanced subject when talking about swimming in the ocean. I think some of the people on here have given a pretty good idea of what I was asking for.
Basically, I wanted to know what are good benchmarks to hit before you know you're ready to sign up for a channel swim. I get that the English channel, Gibraltar, Cook Straight, Catalina, etc all have different challenges but was hoping someone could give me the "broad strokes" on how you know if you're ready or not.
The benchmark I used was the following (please don't take my words seriously as I am not experienced):
These 4 are the only established solo marathon swims that I am interested in.
Unless I give up swimming completely, I will do at least a marathon swim every year to keep myself in shape, preferably racing, but I may also swim some different local courses to where I live which aren't standard courses, like the 16 km swim I did last year.
Note that I only take speed into consideration in Gibraltar as it's known that I need to get FAST to do that swim.
However, I didn't know what's wrong in my mind when I signed up for my English Channel swim slot when God forbid me to try swimming in 16°C water in that year (as the minimum temperature that year was 18°C). When I finally got the chance the next year to do my qualification I only lasted for 3 hours in the qualification temperature. I really can't discipline myself in sticking rigorously to all my plans. And due to budget reason I have skipped rounding Hong Kong.
To inspire more useful, specific answers, I'd suggest being more specific about which channel swim(s) you have in mind. There's not really any such thing as a "benchmark" or a "good 10K time" for "a channel swim." The swim from Alcatraz to San Francisco is a channel swim. It's a 1.25-mile channel in water temps ranging from 50 to 65F depending on the season.
Moreover, with the exception of certain highly technical cross-current swims like Cook Strait or RT Angel Island in San Francisco, your 10K speed is not even in the top 5 most relevant "benchmarks" for solo marathon swimming. Far more important:
I said using your 10K time as a gauge and I also asked in the original post what other metrics you can use before you sign up for a 20km+ channel swim.
I just want to know how people knew they were ready before they signed up for a 20+ km channel swim.
I am sorry I confuse people every time I ask a question on this forum haha
@musclewhale89 you're not confusing me, I just think you're asking the wrong question. I'd suggest focusing more on distance than speed. A 10K is a useful distance benchmark. Let us know how your upcoming swim goes! If your eventual goal is a 20-ish mile / 30-ish km channel swim like EC or Catalina, then 20K would be a good next benchmark after the 10K.
All in good humor. Thank you for the response. I just want to know I am on the right track and actually that is exactly what I plan on doing next summer is a 20-25km lake crossing depending on which direction I choose.
At the end of the day I guess just try and go faster and further than last time!
Hey in answer to the original question- I think it depends, as many others have said. @evmo listed some of the factors -that even incredibly fast swimmers might not have- which are ultimately the key to any long swim. A lot depends on your ability to deal with conditions for a really long time. Plus the more balanced your stroke is, the less likely you are to get injured and have that be a factor in how far you can go. Basically you will be in the middle/biggest group in a 10k if you do 2:45-3:15 (if it is flat water like a lake with no assist). I know exactly one person who can do sub 2 hrs for a 10k and he is alone in most races unless an Olympian is in the field. Have fun!
Jen how old is this person.who can do sub 2hrs for 10k?
If he is 55-60 or 70 years age group that is unbelivable!)))( u know this is joke. Like 1.48.33!)
From monday i start working for speed (10 days) and wanna after be able swim 2hrs but7 or 8k))) im 46year!
For first time i prepear for 30k with only 40days!
I do a lot swim and lost 10kg! Was very important for me to feel good and fit ( in water and earth)
Im very happy but now start fix my mind to compet and for bad condition ( me and ocean and weather)
And last but no least for trip!
Covid test and other crazy thing!)))
Ok stop will go in bed!)))
Like a pro!
Healt and all the best to all
Yes—that’s the spirit.
I think the best benchmark is how you feel during and after completing the 10k—were you able to maintain a consistent pace? Did you feel like you could keep going? Do you have the desire to go further next time? If any/all of these are true, especially the last one, then you’re good to go signing up for a longer swim. If not, like you felt terrible and barely finished, then take a minute, evaluate your training and do the same distance again. If you do it a few times, you’ll figure out what does and doesn’t work for you. Then move on to longer, if you want.
It’s natural to think you have to be a certain speed to be “good enough” to try a swim you have your eye on, but honestly, I think it’s more that you have to have a certain amount of experience with longer and longer swims in the same types of conditions (salt/fresh water, temperature, altitude etc). Through all those swims (in training, or official events), you gain the mental and physical adaptations you need to keep stretching your capacity.
Have a great swim!! Savor every moment you can and finish wanting more! (And tell us how it goes).
Channel swimming is not about speed (though it helps you get out of the water faster of course) but grit IMHO. So many examples.
For your own comfort try to be as as close you can get to a comfortable cruisng speed of at least, say, 3 kms/hr (mine is closer to 3.8, in a pool ), but if slower, it can still be done. Technique, dealing with adversity, working out a right food plan etc. is more important in my view. And make sure you have done some training in really rough cold water with hard winds and waves. It's those latter things that will get you across, not speed per se.
Milko
https://db.marathonswimmers.org/p/milko-van-gool/
Right!
But 1h.48.33 for 10k is plus!
My opinion!
Can anyone swim ow with good speed and wrong technigue!
And eat extreely gourmet food?!?
All is possible in our crazy world.but if ow (chanel-manel or so) iis packaging in same normal speed face! Is for prefer!
How will feel same ow swimmer who swim Molokai for 3days?!? I dont know!
Ps befor few years i swam ow (normal or good speed) i finish and all was ok! I feel great and ok! After...7hours later come one guy.i look him with atancion!
He was extrimly not on this world! Why must swim all .when u so slow?!?
I dont know!
Chanel have wave.cold.curent and so many dificulty.whot happen withaut some normal speed!
Ok most important is all be alive.health and find some joy and fun in ow!
All the best
Thanks for the response. It gives me a good idea of where I am at. I completed my first 10km swim on my 32nd birthday (Sep. 5) with a time of 4:46. A 3km/hr pace would've put me around 3:20. I did the first 5km in 1:55 and then obviously slowed down. I was really in flow and clipping along at a fast pace from 5km-7km (around 6km was my fastest split) but then had to slow down for the last 2km.
I can say that my technique and nutrition are all on point and when I start something like this, I finish it so dealing with adversity is not an issue. The water I swim in is always cold being in Northern Alberta. This time of year its around that 14 deg C range and I thrive in that temp, its usually hotter water I struggle in a bit.
At the end of the swim I felt a little tired (obviously) but mostly I felt good and excited to swim again.
Obviously my goal now over the winter months is to increase my speed to get closer to that 3km/hr "cruising speed" and then in the spring test myself with another 10km swim and hopefully smoke my time.
Around this time next year I am also planning a 20km swim!
Sorry but I have to disagree with you after my failure. The pilot told me faster swimmers would get across and faster swimmers did get across on the day. I already told my pilot that my speed was 2.1 km/h beforehand.
It saddens me to say it but you failed because of your attitude. It's so clear to others but I don't think will ever be apparent to yourself.
Step u right.but that is right about EC !
Mik is ready for something more short and relaxing!
On my opinion if he have enough money after EC fee. He must go to Barbados!
Will forgot all chanel immediately!
Will see the world and ow on different point of view!)))
10k in Barbados
Whot can to wish more every OW swimmer?!?
For me..Nothing !
All the best to all
Hope to see u one day in Barbados!)))
It didn't help when I didn't have the speed. I had done a lot of these already, and, these helped me to tough out more than half of the Channel when nearly half of the fleet turned back before the separation zone in the day of my attempt. However, my progress was lost and my speed dropped like a cliff, eventually missing the tide turn.
My savings can only last me until probably the end of the year and now I need to find a job first then think about saving 1/3 - 1/2 of my salary such that I can eventually retire before my skills become outdated to be employable. I just want to move to London and don't want to travel anymore outside the Network Railcard area in the coming few years in other to save money, and enter races in the vicinity of London instead, preferably in London itself with skyscrapers in view while swimming (my dream swim is always the iconic challenge in the metropolitan city I live). A 10 km race consists of Olympic-style loops in a lake in London is the best thing I want to do in marathon swimming.
However, now more and more people have told me that my marathon swimming goal (to become an elite competitive swimmer) is unrealistic. I'm thinking if it's worthwhile for me to still try, or give up the sport completely and pick another which I have a better chance to become an elite.
@miklcct I really do think it's an unrealistic expectation for somebody starting in your late 20s. Attempting to reach elite level is likely to leave you frustrated and unfulfilled, if that's your only goal. For what it's worth, as somebody who does the bookings for a Channel pilot, that supposed neap tide you swam on didn't do what it was supposed to. If you look at the tracks from at least two days of that tide, most swimmers were taken much further north than expected and quite a few who would have finished, unfortunately, didn't. On a neap which behaves as expected, most of you would have made it. It's absolutely not all about speed and enough people have told you that, many of whom have made it across with only average speed. It's really tough for you that you had a day which combined rough water with unexpectedly strong tidal movement. Your obsession with speed wasn't helped by you swimming on a day when only the speediest made it, but it's wrong to extrapolate that information into a bald statement that only the fastest can swim the Channel. There is always an element of luck involved. If you really want that swim, you'll go again. If you don't, please let it go now, stop overanalysing it and try something else.
I absolutely know what you mean here, but my main point is that professional swimmers do have the ability to make it across even it is a tough day. If I compared myself to the "average" swimmer I did well toughing out the rough weather until I was defeated by the tide when 3 out of 7 solos returned before the separation zone, but my goal in marathon swimming is to become good enough to compete with professional swimmers.
My training should be enough for me to get across if the conditions were right, but, as
Therefore I'm blaming myself on my training. I haven't done everything in my power which should include a season of pool swimming between December 2020 and March 2021. The reason I didn't do that was a force closure order under the pandemic for these exact months, which wiped the whole winter season out.
I should clarify my statement to be "the fastest swimmers have a much higher success rate in swimming the Channel compared to the average swimmers if the condition is worse than expected".
@miklcct I don't mean to be rude but why does almost every thread turn into this back and forth on why you're not meeting your goals?
You literally take over every thread and change the topic... I am sorry but its kind of ruining the thread for everyone else. I wouldn't say anything if this certain topic wasn't one that I specifically made inquiring about something I was unsure about and now its all about you.
@musclewhale89 I’ve been meaning to say congrats on your 10k
I was actually pretty psyched to read that you finished tired but wanting more. In some ways, that’s become a personal definition of success for me, even when I haven’t set out to do exactly what I wanted in terms of distance, speed or whatnot.
I guess there’s no denying that some amount of speed can come in really handy, especially with channel swims that have strong currents.
Getting back to the point of this thread and your goal to work on getting faster, I think the single most important factor is building speed is improving technique and coordination in the water.
When you’re doing a complex set of movements, your body relies on proprioception to know precisely where your body is in space and that allows for coordinated movements. Without proprioception, there can be no voluntary movement at all.
When you are in the water, proprioception is a little different and it takes some time and concerted effort to adjust so that your body can execute amazingly complex, coordinated movement patterns that take advantage of the waters density and buoyancy. Swimmers and coaches call this, “feel for the water”. Whenever I try to help friends who didn’t grow up competitive swimmers get better at swimming speed, they just want to get in and go as fast as they can all the time. So much of the way young swimmers are trained is the opposite of that. Large chunks of practice are spent on “stroke drills” that help hone this “feel for the water” and contribute to making these complex movements look easy. From there, kids get faster and faster as their technique improves.
Even when I was swimming in college at Texas A&M with lots of very fast swimmers, we would spend some chunks of time just floating—head down, arms out like Superman, learning through experience how to coordinate tiny muscles to hold a perfect body position. Swimming is so easy when you can do that, but it’s hard to get adults to take the time for it. Often people are too busy trying to prove how “elite” they are to take the time for the skills to really improve (doesn’t sound like you, but it happens).
I realize you may already know all this, but you sound sincere in your desire to improve and I hope this unsolicited advice can be useful in improving your speed and continuing to have an enjoyable experience as you work your way up in distance!
Lake so right " feel for the water"!
I will stop writing on this discussion! All is clear for all!
Whot u wanna is one.whot u can is another story!
On my opinion the most import is everybody to have ' feel for the life"
PS if u have or another way to Europe.try MIUS! Im so impress from this competition! Great was all and have 1-3-5-10 and...30k!
Plus on one fantastic place on earth!
Wish health and good luck to all!
Evan has given you the important list of metrics to calculate whether or not you're ready to build to a 20k+ swim.
If you want examples of 10ks and progress upwards, I have a few 10k times but the two which matter to me are the ones which weren't down a river, so had absolutely no current assistance. They were 3:38 in a lake and 3:33 in a rough sea. I'm not a fast swimmer, as you see, and never will be.
I went from 10k to 6 hours in the first instance, @musclewhale89, by building up in training through 4 and 5 hours. I was regularly doing 3+ hours from 2010, on 10k river swim events like the Dart 10k, with some tidal assistance, and could manage 14 - 16k over a 6 hour swim, depending on conditions. My next challenge was supposed to be 10 miles, but I'd done 3 x 6 hour swims in the weeks leading up to my booked 10 mile length of Windermere, so I changed to a 2 way to see what I could do. I managed it but it hurt....... a lot, the splits were 7 hrs and 7 hrs 47 mins. (All training had been in salt water and the fresh water took its toll. ) It took quite a few days of recovery. That was in 2013 and recovery from long swims since then has been much better.
I do think doing back to back training swims on consecutive days really helps. There's no "one size fits all", of course, and many, many different ways to train. I have only my own experience to share and limited knowledge, but, to answer your original question, that's how I knew I was ready for a longer swim than the 16k I originally planned.
Many congratulations on your first 10k event. So delighted for you.
@LakeBagger @KatieBun Thank you guys very much for the congrats and advice. I really appreciate it and will definitely put it to good use over the winter months. I would have to agree that sometimes I feel like I just need to put the miles in to get better but I should step back a little and do more drills to work on technique in between "putting in the miles"
I hate the pool, @musclewhale89 but drills, drills, drills and speedwork are what the winter is about, with shortish outdoor swims, just for fun. Would love to know how you get on.
I think with many daunting tasks, one can scare themselves off by overthinking it. You built up your distance and speed and did a 10K. At some point you felt that you were ready and you went for it and did it. As many have said above, the speed you swim isn't really the point. Some swims will require speed, some won't. If you don't think you are too fast, then pick a swim that doesn't require speed. 20K is a distance, not a time.
Technique will always help your speed. It also will help your distance because you won't be working so hard to move through the water. Technique will beat strength and endurance any day of the week. As @KatieBun says above, "drills, drills, drills."
@musclewhale89 I kind of went on similar journey when I got hooked on this sport.
After doing some short swims I did the Rottnest channel swim (19.6km) in 2011 as a part of a relay and that inspired me to want to do it as a solo in 2013. To prepare for it in 2012 I did some 10km swims first, partly as a learning experience and also because the Rottnest Channel requires an OW 10km as a qualifier.
Some things I learned:
Conditions make a huge difference
This shouldn't be a big surprise, but worth emphasizing. In 2012 I did 3 10km events:
The South Head swim was in the ocean in challenging conditions (and may be a smidge longer than 10km truth be told), Applegate lake was a glass smooth lake, and the Big Tortuga was a lake swim that had a lot of chop on the back half due to a string breeze.
If I had only done one of these events I would have had a very different picture of my abilities depending on which one I had done. Swim times really need to be evaluated in the context of the conditions when you are trying to track some kind of progress to goal.
Endurance matters
I did a bunch of 10km pool swims in preparation for the actual Rottnest swim because I was training in the northern hemisphere winter and flying to the Southern hemisphere summer for the swim. I was able to manage to hold a 3km/hour pace in a LCM pool for most of those training sessions.
When I did the actual Rottnest swim my actual effective pace was closer to 2.15km/hour (9h10m). I don't have my splits from that swim, but seem to recall the first half taking about 4h, and the back half was 5h. Some of that slow down was due to the conditions (Rottnest gets notoriously choppy in the latter half for slower swimmers), but also I just didn't have the endurance to hold anything like my pool 10km pace.
In 2017 I did another 20km swim (Mercer Island) in near perfect conditions, and even though I was a much better swimmer at that point, my pace was only 2.44km/hour.
I don't think I ever put enough yards in to develop the endurance to hold the pace I was using in my training sessions. If I ever get the bug to do a 20km swim again I would also look to up my volume of training.
Longer Swims are as much mental as physical
Again probably not a huge surprise. For me personally, I have really noticed that once I get past 4-5 hours or so, keeping myself in the game mentally is tougher. Hours 5-8 of my Rottnest Channel swim were very very hard for me because I was obsessing over the how much longer the swim would be, but once I hit the 18km marker I was perfectly happy, and was in great shape when I finally finished.
I DNF'ed my second Rottnest Channel swim because I realized it was going to be another 9 hour epic after 5 hours of swimming and that was enough to push me over the edge with some other factors - a kayaker who was having a hard time keeping me on track due to conditions, and some vomiting induced by diesel fumes - but the primary failure was my mental toughness on that swim.
That all said
Doing a 20km swim is a matter of preparation, both physical and mental. You don't have to be a swimming god to do it, but you will have to do the work.
http://notdrowningswimming.com - open water adventures of a very ordinary swimmer
Thank you for your inspiration. I still have a race registration on at a similar distance postponed from 2020 to 2022 and I hope I can do it well.
May I ask what kind of swimming pools do you train in the northern hemisphere winter? The place I live only has small indoor pools which I find them unbearably hot for sustained high intensity training, and the sessions are 50 minutes only.
The short answer is whatever is available
Pre-covid and Pre-kids I used to travel a lot for work, so would try my best to pick hotels that either had a lap pool or were near a lap pool. When I was training specifically for a longer swim I would try and find a 50m out door pool to do a long set in on weekends, and would drive distances to find such a pool (if you are doing a 4 hour set, driving an hour or two is not big deal). I did end up doing a 15,000 yard workout in short course pool once when the LCM pool I had driven to ended had a water polo tournament, so was configured for SCY.
There is a local swimmer (Eddie Peinado) who is an Airline Pilot and famously trained with a tether for his English Channel swim since the average airline crew hotel barely has a pool, and certainly not one that you do laps in. I was lucky enough that it never came to that (worst I ever swam laps in was probably an 18 yard hotel pool), but where there is a will there is a way, as they saying goes.
http://notdrowningswimming.com - open water adventures of a very ordinary swimmer
It will be impractical if I need to travel two hours each way for a pool to do a three-hour set, if I want to do such set 3 days a week before work, and use the weekends for long open water swims.
I actually paved a way to do that last year by working at a place 10:00-19:00 with an unheated outdoor pool just 3 minutes from it which opens at 06:30, but COVID ruined my plan, and eventually my training as a whole.
The whole point of pool training is to make sure that my form doesn't deteriorate and I can keep my pace over a long period. I'm really sorry that I don't know how to do that unless I'm in a pool which allows me to stay there for more than 3 hours.
You plan your training around what you have access to. If you only have access to a pool for 50 minutes, then guess what, you are going to have to train for 50 minutes at a time.
Since my local pool re-opened I have only had time to to do 40 minute sets before the kids get up, but I am doing them every weekday, and my pace has dropped from 1:50/100y to 1:30/100y, so clearly it is doing something.
It's not enough volume for a 20km swim, but if I had the option of long swim training on the weekend it could be made to work.
Hot pools are not fun, but I've done workouts while on the road in an outdoor pool in Phoenix in the middle of summer (daytime temp of 115F/46C) and while I felt like I was being slowly boiled alive in a chlorine soup, I survived (hydration! hydration! hydration!).
That all said have you investigated Swimmers Guide to find other pool options?
http://notdrowningswimming.com - open water adventures of a very ordinary swimmer