Is Solo/Channel/Ultraswimming a Competitive Sport? (Why or why not)
LakeBagger
Central OregonSenior Member
I'll start off by saying I don't have a firm opinion on this and am interested to see what other people think. For clarity, I'm referring specifically to swims where you are the only swimmer starting at that time on that day (not races like END-WET, SCAR, Portland Bridge etc, or FINA).
On one hand, there are awards given, an international hall of fame to consider, lots of discussions about what makes someone "elite" in this sport, speed records and careful record keeping by swim associations and the longswims database. This isn't just people playing around in the ocean until they find themselves in France. There's a competitive element there... or maybe just an attempt to give credit for outstanding swimming where credit is due.
On the other hand, many people I've talked to say they are not in this for the competition/comparison with others, but rather for a personal challenge... like an ambition that they just measure against themselves. They just want to see if they can do it or not on that day, with those conditions.
Even for people motivated by competition (which by the way, I fully condone, any motivation is good motivation), it's terribly difficult to make accurate comparisons between swimmers, due to the huge impact of conditions on speed or even ability to complete a swim. There are so many places to swim, with so many different factors involved. How do you compare an ocean swim of a certain distance at a certain temperature with certain winds and tidal currents with a lake swim at a different temperature with different currents and maybe even a somewhat shorter or longer distance? Can we really compete with one another under these conditions? Or is it more like art--like you made this incredible thing and people can really appreciate it (or not), but it's really totally unique to you and can't be objectively compared to others' art.
Thoughts, please? (Again, I'm kinda not sure and super curious what you think).
Comments
Seems to me, there's room for both perspectives. A person can strive to compete on a world stage or do things no one has done before. Or s/he might see something like the EC as a "bucket list" item, one and done for the personal accomplishment. Or any point on that scale.
As a runner, I was never in danger of scoring overall wins (except in one small race when an 11 year old girl dropped out making me the only female lol).
However, I did pursue personal goals.... best times, Boston Marathon qualifier, age group wins in smaller races.... and sure, there were women in my age group I pursued. But running in and of itself was something I enjoyed.
Now, since I've morphed into a swimmer, same holds true--except my speed makes me even less competitive and age doesn't help. Still I keep swimming and seek to stretch MY limits--not the limits of the super achievers. I bless their accomplishments. I cheered Sarah Thomas's 4 way EC, w no sense that I would set out to equal or surpass it, just excited that she did it!
I sometimes have gotten competitive.... to my detriment on one occasion.... saw a man not too far ahead of me in a mile swim, so pushed myself to catch him. Oops! We were both going off course!
I cheer for the top notch folks who raise the bar for us all. And I set goals that REALISTICALLY challenge my limits.
Interesting question. I would describe solo marathon swimming as indirectly competitive or contextually competitive. Like other solo endurance sports, there are different modes of participation, which can be more or less competitive. Some individual participants in marathon swimming never compete, while others are drawn exclusively to the competitive aspects.
The sport's longstanding attention to "firsts" and "course records" for solo routes are examples of indirect competition. On a given day the solo swimmer competes against only herself/himself and a body of water; but their achievement may be subsequently considered alongside others who swam the same route on other days.
When I first learned how to swim, the challenge was putting my face under water and blowing bubbles, or floating on my back without being scared. The next step was figuring out how to move in a particular direction and finally how to do different strokes. None of these were competitive challenges, but they sure gave moments of satisfaction when I could finally graduate from tadpole to minnow all the way up to SHARK!!!
I still remember how much I wanted to be a shark and finally, one day, I passed the test. What an achievement! Well once I was a shark I could swim on swim teams. And once again I had to learn how to swim more than one length of the pool at a time. I had to learn how to do a racing start off the blocks. (gulp...) I had to flip turn without getting water up my nose. And I had to race the big kids who were so fast that I never would be able to be that fast. Until one day I was.
Then I raced anything and everything that moved. And I loved to race. Hated the moments before the race where I felt sick and wanted to die. Loved the race itself. And loved the camaraderie amongst the team mates and also the competitors. We all worked darn hard to be where we were at that moment. And we all did it to be able to race and win. Then I burned out and stopped swimming for a couple years.
I started swimming again because... well if I have to explain it, you don't belong on this site. Anyway, I joined Masters and before you know it, I was racing again. It was kind of fun because I didn't feel the pressure that I used to. I was racing for the shear hell of it and that made a big difference. Then I started doing mile races outside. I'd train indoors in a pool and then swim outdoors in a lake and enjoy the heck out of it. One day it occurred to my dense brain, that I could actually train outdoors in a lake any time I wanted to. And so that is how my summers developed into a new enjoyable part of my life.
My recent challenges have been to swim longer more interesting routes and just enjoy being in nice environments. I don't race except for the occasional event that doesn't require too much planning and so forth. I like to show up with my suit, towel and goggles and let 'er rip and then go home. Fun.
So I guess the point of this historical perspective is that I believe all types of swimming can be a challenge. From the beginning stages to the peak competitive events, you have to rise to meet the occasion. Competition is one of the challenges, but just getting across the course or swimming as far as you ever have swum before is another of the challenges. So I prefer to think of marathon swimming as a challenge rather than a competition.
Golf is a game. Football is a sport. Swimming is an art.
Absolutely.
What makes it different is that you have to compete against yourself before you consider the competition.
You have to swim your own race before going for the win.
I just ran across this quote and thought it would sort of apply to the conversation above:
"It’s true that life brings us far more defeats than victories. And real-life wisdom arises not so much from knowing how we might beat someone as from learning how to accept defeat with grace." - Murakami
Solo/Channel/Ultraswimming is not a competitive sport. Although I'm admired by Sarah Thomas and Neil Agius I'm totally uninterested in doing similar things. I have no interest in solo / ultraswimming in general, with the following exceptions:
I'm only interested in competitive sports. In swimming, I'm interested in the kind of 10 km swimming as seen on the Olympics - pack swimming in loops in a bay.
Also, I find it pointless to travel for swims / events, unless I'm competing at a world-class level. The only sport which I am willing to travel for events is orienteering, because it has to be done in an unfamiliar environment, unlike any other sports. In solo/channel/ultraswimming, I appreciate people doing swims near their home (such as the Italy - Malta swim by Neil Agius), but I find it pointless for people to repeatedly do swims which involve half-the-globe travel (such as an Australian swimming the English Channel multiple times) unless it is a world-class competition.
Ultra swimming can be a sport, it can also not be a sport. It all depends on how you approach it. The definition of sport is just a physical competition against other people which Ultra swimming definitely could be. I have done competitive open water swims and Ironman competitions and I have also done Solo 10 km swims. For me personally, I enjoy Solo swimming without the competition aspect of it. And that is coming from someone who competed in Wrestling and Jiu Jitsu for several years. For me, swimming is a personal quest on conquering something that really challenges me and pushes me out of my comfort zone. I really don't care if I swim a 10 km or a channel swim faster than someone as long as I am really pushing myself to the limits of my capabilities.
In summary, is Ultra swimming a sport? YES. But it doesn't have to be.
Ultra swim is way of life!!!
Is sport?!? Ha ha ha
Ofcourse YES!
But unfortunately not for everyone!
Be health
I appreciate the distinction between directly vs indirectly/contextually competitive. It’s harder to make comparisons with any indirect competition than with a direct one, but maybe that keeps it interesting (and challenging!) for those doing the comparing.
I wonder if swims that are directly competitive (where many swimmers are doing the same course at the same time) are more appealing to those who wish to compare themselves to other swimmers than the solo swims.
I’m going to ask @swimmer25k: I see on longswimsdb that you did the EC in addition to your professional racing career. What was it like to do a solo swim versus your directly competitive pro swims? Did you find yourself attempting to compare your EC swim with other swimmers to indirectly compete, or did you find you approached the swim from a less competitive mindset since you were swimming solo?
From my perspective, golf and swimming have something in common.
Both require good technique. You can be fit, strong, athletic, etc. but not be good at either because of lack of technique.
I am an adult-onset golfer and swimmer, and there are many times I say "I wish I had learnt this as a kid".
I can easily be beaten by a skinny 12 year old boy or girl in swimming, and then outdriven and outplayed by that same skinny 12 year old in golf.
gw
I’m going to add something to my post from last year.
This is absolutely a sport (and like Evan said) with several different contexts.
I’ve done a few solos, but mostly races against other swimmers. The dynamic of the latter is considerably different (and in my opinion) can be much more difficult and stressful to deal with because you may have to leave your comfort zone.
As a soloists you only have to worry about yourself and the environment. In a race you have the same issues with the added vector of “the other guys/gals”. This adds a whole different set of factors that will greatly affect your tactics. There have been races where I’ve gone down 200 meters in the first 20 minutes and then spend 4 hours catching up (and making the pass).
There’s lots of mental and physical jousting going on in addition to what I had to deal with as a soloist. Imagine climbing the Alpe du Huez course on your own for fun and the sense of achievement. Try the same thing when competing for a yellow jersey in the Tour de France. It’s almost an entirely different sport.
To clarify: it seems fairly obvious to me that races (where multiple people are swimming at the same time) are a competitive sport. What I was curious about was specifically if people feel that solo swims where no one else is swimming at the same time are competitive (as in comparing with other swimmers).
As I mentioned before, “indirectly competitive” is a useful term to address this question and it’s a good way to think of it.
Good comparison—I agree, an entirely different experience and as described here doesn’t strike me as particularly competitive. But as others have said, I suppose that gets back to the matter of personal choice on the mindset with which you are participating.
Personally, I’ve approached races with a gusto that is lacking in my solo swims. When it’s just me, I don’t feel an urge to try to go as quickly as I can, I feel like I’m hiking at a regular pace or something. I really do feel like I’m on the Alpe du Huez course for fun, not in an indirect race of some kind.
I suspect my approach is pretty common/normal, but enough people have asked me about my slower times on some of my solo swims to make me wonder if I was supposed to be trying to go fast or something.
Thanks everyone for the input so far, interesting discussion!
I’m going to ask @swimmer25k: I see on longswimsdb that you did the EC in addition to your professional racing career. What was it like to do a solo swim versus your directly competitive pro swims? Did you find yourself attempting to compare your EC swim with other swimmers to indirectly compete, or did you find you approached the swim from a less competitive mindset since you were swimming solo?
I’m sorry that I didn’t answer this earlier. I did my Channel swim exactly like I had done any of the USS Nats or pro races I’d previously done. I decided to “race” it because it was what I already knew. I decided early that I wasn’t going to change anything in my training, feeding, and how I did the swim. I went out long and strong, and stepped on the gas when it was looking like I could be under 8 hours. (The tide screwed me up a little and cost me lots of time).
I went with what I knew. One of the Dover locals didn’t like my training. I showed up about 7 days before my tide and swam about 2.5 hours that day and dropped 30 mins each day until my swim. He didn’t like that and said I wouldn’t make it. He didn’t care that I had trained about 80K/week leading up to it and a dozen escorted swims 25K and up. He also scoffed at me for drinking Gatorade and said that I should drink Maxim. I’m sure it’s good stuff, but I wasn’t going to chance it. My gut knew Fierce Berry and I wasn’t going switch.
I decided to train every morning in the harbor hours before anyone else showed up. I trained and did my swim in complete anonymity.
I was chasing Hundeby’s course and was only 150 meters behind him at the halfway point. His legacy was my competition that day.
I swam with urgency.
My feeds only took a few seconds. I’ve seen lots of video of people taking their time and socializing. My job was to swim and not discuss my feelings. Stopping costs time, which is too valuable of a commodity to be frivolous with.
The swim itself wasn’t overly challenging because I wasn’t chasing a National Team parka that 10 other guys wanted as well. It was stressful in other ways because I was doing it alone.
You always have to go with what feels right to you.
I think in some ways when you are swimming alone it's tougher than racing because you have no one and nothing to pace against. You just have to push yourself. I always go faster when I'm swimming with someone else. It helps if they are faster than me. But I'll go faster even if they are slower, just because...
I should have asked you how you trained last year that I could copy you. You had a competitive mindset and you are a successful competitive swimmer which is always my goal in swimming.
@swimmer25k great story and example of indirect competition in solo swimming. What an exciting swim! I especially like the part about the local not liking your training and telling you you wouldn’t make it. Lol. Cheers to going with what you knew