Questions and Notes on Open Water Butterfliers

SuddethBSuddethB Member
edited July 2020 in General Discussion

I'm doing some research on OW butterfliers, and I'm looking for input. You can see some of my output here: https://www.openwaterpedia.com/index.php?title=Open_Water_Butterfly_Swims

I read a prior thread setting some guidance on stroke legality prior to Sylle's fly EC. (ref: https://forum.marathonswimmers.org/discussion/comment/2824/#Comment_2824)
I also read a group document that came out of that discussion. (ref: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pviP0TDDR-YAc5UHTMSfJEUoM6gMpMMpwATD-8udCCE/edit)

There is a minor conflict between parts of the discussion and the document, specifically in the allowed kick. The document is clear that dolphin kick is required and breaststroke whip kick is NOT (I concur with this.) Some parts of the discussion also recognize that some groups DO allow "butterfrog" kick (US Masters, WOWSA), but it would appear that isn't in line with FINA standards. (ref: 8.3 https://www.fina.org/sites/default/files/2017_2021_swimming_12092017_ok_0.pdf)

One of the things I'm looking to do is recognize Robin Lajoie of Canada who has several 10K OW swims in butterfly. I don't see his name in your longswims database. Is there a way to search the database by stroke so I can find more butterfly long OW swims?

I have information from Robin that he's completed the 10K "Welland Canal Open Water Swim" in Ontario three times (2012, 2014, 2018) all butterfly each time (FINA kick, no wetsuit). His most recent one was at the youthful age of 63 (born March 27, 1955). I had hoped to be able to swim a 10k fly at an age older than Dan Projansky to become the oldest marathon flyer, but Robin has me beat. I'm hoping someone can find the official results and we can get his swims into the DB.
I believe Robin has taken Danny off of this "record": link

but not off this one: link

On the youth side, I was pleased to see notes about Michaela Arsenault and her Lake Erie fly swim. Thanks for info about that and her sister Trinity.

Any information or links about other butterfly OW swims (no wetsuit, no butterfrog, all fly, 1 mile or more) is very welcome. You can reach me via Brian_MSF@Suddeth.com.

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Comments

  • Tri_ingAgainTri_ingAgain Derry, NHMember

    It wasn't officially documented, but I did a 1 mile butterfly swim (actually 1,880 yards according to my Garmin) at the Wild Bill Swim in honor of Wild Bill Yorzyk on 8/7/22. I don't know if you would want to note that, where it wasn't officially recorded. There were many witnesses including the RD who watched me most of the time, but there was no one specifically watching to make sure I ONLY did fly but I did indeed swim nothing but fly. Anyway, the reason I was looking for something like this is to get a better idea of how I might get such swims verified in the future as I plan to do longer and longer fly swims and it would be really nice to have some on the record. Thanks!

  • LakeBaggerLakeBagger Central OregonSenior Member

    @Tri_ingAgain congratulations, that is a lot of butterfly! If you work up to a 10k or more, it would reach official marathon distance and you could consider doing the msf documented swims process to have it officially recorded. Here’s a link to get you thinking… https://marathonswimmers.org/swims/document/

    Tri_ingAgain
  • Tri_ingAgainTri_ingAgain Derry, NHMember

    @LakeBagger Thanks! I have a lot of friends who do marathon swims and they often have those documented, so I'm sure I can deal with that part. Is there anything special that needs to be done to confirm that I meet the requirements that are specific to fly? I don't do butterfrog anyway and no wetsuit is a given for marathon swims in general, but just in terms of documenting that I never changed strokes (other than treading water to feed, if that is permissible, which I'm not sure about but would need to consider for longer swims than 5k)

    LakeBagger
  • KatieBunKatieBun CornwallSenior Member

    @Tri_ingAgain said:
    It wasn't officially documented, but I did a 1 mile butterfly swim (actually 1,880 yards according to my Garmin) at the Wild Bill Swim in honor of Wild Bill Yorzyk on 8/7/22. I don't know if you would want to note that, where it wasn't officially recorded. There were many witnesses including the RD who watched me most of the time, but there was no one specifically watching to make sure I ONLY did fly but I did indeed swim nothing but fly. Anyway, the reason I was looking for something like this is to get a better idea of how I might get such swims verified in the future as I plan to do longer and longer fly swims and it would be really nice to have some on the record. Thanks!

    Huge congrats on the phenomenal long distance fly!
    When people swim the EC butterfly, we have two observers as stroke judges.They must be either qualified swim officials, (stroke judge or referee), or qualified coaches. One of them has to be watching at all time. Stroke may only be broken to take a feed, during a solo. I was lucky enough to observe the Fly to France relay team a few years ago.

    Tri_ingAgainLakeBagger
  • curlycurly Issaquah, WASenior Member

    @Tri_ingAgain said:
    It wasn't officially documented, but I did a 1 mile butterfly swim (actually 1,880 yards according to my Garmin) at the Wild Bill Swim in honor of Wild Bill Yorzyk on 8/7/22. I don't know if you would want to note that, where it wasn't officially recorded. There were many witnesses including the RD who watched me most of the time, but there was no one specifically watching to make sure I ONLY did fly but I did indeed swim nothing but fly. Anyway, the reason I was looking for something like this is to get a better idea of how I might get such swims verified in the future as I plan to do longer and longer fly swims and it would be really nice to have some on the record. Thanks!

    I know that you just casually posted that you did a mile butterfly swim, and are looking for advice. This site is populated by insane overachievers, but a mile butterfly swim is REALLY impressive and I'd just like to point that out.

    kejoyceruthLakeBaggerKatieBun
  • Tri_ingAgainTri_ingAgain Derry, NHMember

    @KatieBun thanks so much, this is EXACTLY what I was looking for!

    @curly thanks, I put a lot of work into building up to that point and it really feels good to have it acknowledged.

    LakeBaggerKatieBun
  • gregorywannabegregorywannabe Senior Member

    Openwaterpedia lists 2 swimmers who have completed the Rottnest Channel Swim (19.7km) doing butterfly.

  • gregorywannabegregorywannabe Senior Member

    P.S. It has also been done using backstroke, as well as double and triple crossings, and the oldest single crossing being 80! 😱

  • abeabe australiaMember

    80 is the overachiever

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