I have two solo swims, called my dream swims which I especially want to do. One is the English Channel (mainly for the name and fate because there is no-one else from my country has done it yet), another is round HK (because I'm a local and it's a local swim which can affirm my identity as a Hongkonger, however as Alex Fong did it last year already it has become less meaningful for me then before).
I'm asking people about how I should plan these 2 if I want to do them both. (The channel is shorter but much harder both physically and mentally, also the added complication of arranging travel and crew logistics compared to doing a local swim) We know that the direct cost of an English Channel crossing is about £4000 (pilot & reg fee), and for the HK one I haven't enquired that yet, but someone suggested that it is much more expensive than the channel.
If the HK swim turns out to not be that expensive, then I can arrange it in the same year as my channel swim as my perfect preparation, and if it goes wrong I can withdraw my channel attempt to limit my losses. However, if it really turns out to much expensive that I don't think it is worthwhile or if my budget doesn't allow doing them all in the same year in conjunction with a year of working holiday, then I don't know what I should do because in this case the channel attempt will become a gamble because I have no confidence as it will be my first solo swim, it will add more indirect cost in my training as if I do the HK swim it can replace a significant portion of my channel training, and if it goes wrong not only it's a huge loss for me, it will be a PR disaster for me as well.
Does anyone here has experience doing multiple big-name solo swims in a short period? How does the indirect cost work for you, and the associated training benefit, especially when the first swim can serve as a qualification for the second swim?
Since you haven't done a solo swim, have you considered doing a solo in a major race, such as Rottnest? This way you can get some experience with a longer swim and work out issues, plus the experience of having a crew, etc. And it's not that far from HK (at least compared to the UK.) It's a stepping stone to building up. -
@flystorms said:
Since you haven't done a solo swim, have you considered doing a solo in a major race, such as Rottnest? This way you can get some experience with a longer swim and work out issues, plus the experience of having a crew, etc. And it's not that far from HK (at least compared to the UK.) It's a stepping stone to building up. -
Don't underestimate the distance between HK and Australia - the distance of HK and Perth is about 6000 km while from HK to Moscow is about 7100 km. The HK-AUS flights are long haul flights, not much different from going to Europe.
Moreover, I'm doing a solo in a race (with a crew) in 2 weeks time (not as long as Rottnest, but colder than Rottnest), and planning to do another solo in a longer and possibly colder race in half a year afterwards, but well - it can prepare my body to complete those big solo swims physically but not my mind, especially when if my first big solo swim will be too famous to fail, because when doing races I'm racing for time and place, and other competitors as well.
In Ijillsselmeer the whole event is 50 eur, boats included - but I reckon there is a lot of voluntary activities.
In Rottnest the boat was around 500 AUD, lets say 500 USD..
It's simply wrong to compare the costs between solo swims and swim races - in my opinion I consider them different disciplines of open water swimming.
For me, solo swims are non-competitive once-in-a-lifetime challenges, while races are something you do for time and ranking. We all know that solo swims are expensive hence I have no plan to do the O7 because I don't think it is worthwhile. Moreover I'm a competitive person so that for me, marathon swimming means >= 10 km races (IMO which is not endorsed by the community I accept a wetsuit as a piece of equipment used in cold water marathon swimming as long as the policy is clear, especially since the FINA 2018 rule change).
Somehow I am trying to remain humble in front of the 07 topic, as I am yet far from being at that point.
Yet, Trust me, Ijilsselmeer is a once in a lifetime challenge, because in that "race" you get conditions where in a standard normal race they would advice you to wait for the next day (participants afiliated to swim federations, 40% dnf).
Also, the races you may ref to.. where there's a mass of participants does not compare to the ones indicated.. for Rottnest you have your own boat, captain, assistant and kayaker. I had a team of 4 people.
For Ijlsselmeer I had also a team of four: captain, coach, assistant, observer + dedicated boat.
I don't think these races are incomparable to the solo's you are targeting and thinking of the whole logistics involved (dedicated to one swimmer, not for engross), in some cases you might have a bigger boat/ number of crew etc than in "lifetime" solo.
I haven't given you the example of Bosphor with a hand of boats for 2k swimmers.
now there's a new event out there, in EU, Antibes.. 30k, 18 degrees water, the financial effort is about less than 500 eur and you get everything that you may want for a "solo" event.
So before going to a commercial solo, historical, equivalent of a car equivalent value event, I think there a lot of events that may make many reconsider their life, to gather experience, on a good price.
Yet, Trust me, Ijilsselmeer is a once in a lifetime challenge, because in that "race" you get conditions where in a standard normal race they would advice you to wait for the next day (participants afiliated to swim federations, 40% dnf).
Isn't this pro race which follows FINA rule and entry is thru national federation? I'm looking at their website and getting this conclusion. And it seems that you need to get 2:45 10 km in open water or 2:35 in pool to qualify for the race.
now there's a new event out there, in EU, Antibes.. 30k, 18 degrees water, the financial effort is about less than 500 eur and you get everything that you may want for a "solo" event.
I can't make the cut off for that race - my expected 10 km time is 4 hours.
I'm almost afraid to engage in this convo, but here goes....
I see a couple of train wrecks happening with you, @Miklcct. If you have issues with cold (you've mentioned that here and on USMS forums) and you have issues with time (4hr 10k), combined, you're going to likely have problems with bigger distances. The longer you're in the water and not acclimated to it, the harder it's going to be. Don't you think you should work on speed/efficiency more for another year or two to get your 10k time down to around 3:30?
@flystorms said:
I'm almost afraid to engage in this convo, but here goes....
I see a couple of train wrecks happening with you, @Miklcct. If you have issues with cold (you've mentioned that here and on USMS forums) and you have issues with time (4hr 10k), combined, you're going to likely have problems with bigger distances. The longer you're in the water and not acclimated to it, the harder it's going to be. Don't you think you should work on speed/efficiency more for another year or two to get your 10k time down to around 3:30?
Agree nearly afraid to engage in this convo but you could be in for a trainwreck @Miklcct. I am currently training for a 21.5km and a work colleague has also entered with limited training background. The issues that she will have is speed to qualify as need 10km in 4 hours. @Miklcct the same issue applies your 4hr at 10km is not going to cut it out in the open water and at this stage fear what will become of your speed at the 20km, to prevent a trainwreck a requirement for most channel swims is a comfortable 3km an hour so gives you a 3:20 which is really the minimum so get back in the pool "do the miles do the speed work do the hard work"
@abe said:
Agree nearly afraid to engage in this convo but you could be in for a trainwreck @Miklcct. I am currently training for a 21.5km and a work colleague has also entered with limited training background. The issues that she will have is speed to qualify as need 10km in 4 hours.
What 21.5 km are you doing? I'm finding some 17 - 25 km races in the summer as well worldwide as my next goal if I am comfortable after my 15 km race this month. One of my target race is Vidösternsimmet which is a 21.5 km lake race with 10.5 hours time limit.
@Miklcct the same issue applies your 4hr at 10km is not going to cut it out in the open water and at this stage fear what will become of your speed at the 20km, to prevent a trainwreck a requirement for most channel swims is a comfortable 3km an hour so gives you a 3:20 which is really the minimum so get back in the pool "do the miles do the speed work do the hard work"
OK, everyone in the world (my fellow club members, the people in my OW group, the Facebook groups, and on various forums) is suggesting that my plan to do channel swimming in 2021 doesn't work. 3:20 for 10 km is unlikely to be achievable for me, even 3:40 is very challenging. The fact that I can't find training partners around my speed (4 hours for 10 km) while seeing those 3 hours 10 km (I consider this speed totally unachievable for me, like running 3 hours marathons) swimmers have their own secret group to do long training swims already make me very unhappy.
I don't think that swimming 4 hours for 10 km is really that bad, like running a full marathon for 4 hours, but it seems that I should give up all my dream swims to prevent the train crash.
21.5km swim the coast is Gold coast Australia at the end of May, qualifying swim under 4 hours for a 10km and the 21.5km is a generous 10 hour cut off. Dreams are good but the training has to match need good 100s 200s and 400 repeats and some 1km repeats will drop time quick of your current 4 hour 10km.
Training partners are good but you still have to bank on yourself, good for the mind when you are out in the middle of the ocean
Oh, boy. One of your swims is Hong Kong and you are there? Allow me to be the voice out of left field and say do NOT give up all your dream swims. . . Figure out what you really want, and look at what you need for THAT. In my case, I wanted Lake George. I had missed the cut off for finishing a 10K in 4 hours in 2016, and left the lake devastated. And furious that 1-I might have finished if I had paid attention during early laps, and 2- I could have kept swimming for hours if the course hadn't closed. I started planning to swim the length of the lake the following summer. 52K. I routinely swam 2-4 miles, and occasionally a few more. I was able to swim in a pool during the winter starting that January, so I built up mileage while the lake was frozen. By April, I was able to swim 10 miles one day and 15 the next in the pool, and once in the lake again in May, I was up to serious miles within weeks.
During that time, I asked around for crew ideas. No luck. "Experts" rang in and said I had to try swimming at night, and try big swims first- like the English Channel, or Lake Memphremagog (which is at least nearby, but still needed crew.) I "swam to the test" so to speak, since Lake George is my home turf. In July, I swam about 140 miles. I finally found a novice crew willing give me a chance. We did it. I learned a lot, hope to do things differently this summer, and finish stronger, but WE DID IT. One person told me to try the "big" swims first, and that a lot of people don't finish them, but it would be a good experience. I figured if I was going to try a swim and not make it, I was at least going to try the swim I actually wanted to do.
I'm slow. My last 10K in my lake was about 4:15. I will not be taking a half hour off that without a current assist. Currents do factor on the swims you mentioned, but you also mentioned that Hong Kong was waning in your interest. . . Find the swim you want. I don't want the Channel but I'm interested in swimming IN the Channel, across Utah and Omaha Beaches, one day. We shall see. Meanwhile, my lake is here. . . .I'm not done with it yet. GOOD LUCK.
Awesome swim - the best ones I find no fanfare no big deal all about your personal goal. Doing them at home needing limited funds and just a few people to look after you during swim time
Don't give up, just be more realistic. It takes most of us years to get past 10k. Enter some mid-range ones and don't be afraid of the DNF. Or just quit.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
@IronMike said:
Don't give up, just be more realistic. It takes most of us years to get past 10k. Enter some mid-range ones and don't be afraid of the DNF. Or just quit.
Mike you said this much more eloquently than I did, thank you!
Comments
I have two solo swims, called my dream swims which I especially want to do. One is the English Channel (mainly for the name and fate because there is no-one else from my country has done it yet), another is round HK (because I'm a local and it's a local swim which can affirm my identity as a Hongkonger, however as Alex Fong did it last year already it has become less meaningful for me then before).
I'm asking people about how I should plan these 2 if I want to do them both. (The channel is shorter but much harder both physically and mentally, also the added complication of arranging travel and crew logistics compared to doing a local swim) We know that the direct cost of an English Channel crossing is about £4000 (pilot & reg fee), and for the HK one I haven't enquired that yet, but someone suggested that it is much more expensive than the channel.
If the HK swim turns out to not be that expensive, then I can arrange it in the same year as my channel swim as my perfect preparation, and if it goes wrong I can withdraw my channel attempt to limit my losses. However, if it really turns out to much expensive that I don't think it is worthwhile or if my budget doesn't allow doing them all in the same year in conjunction with a year of working holiday, then I don't know what I should do because in this case the channel attempt will become a gamble because I have no confidence as it will be my first solo swim, it will add more indirect cost in my training as if I do the HK swim it can replace a significant portion of my channel training, and if it goes wrong not only it's a huge loss for me, it will be a PR disaster for me as well.
Does anyone here has experience doing multiple big-name solo swims in a short period? How does the indirect cost work for you, and the associated training benefit, especially when the first swim can serve as a qualification for the second swim?
Since you haven't done a solo swim, have you considered doing a solo in a major race, such as Rottnest? This way you can get some experience with a longer swim and work out issues, plus the experience of having a crew, etc. And it's not that far from HK (at least compared to the UK.) It's a stepping stone to building up. -
Don't underestimate the distance between HK and Australia - the distance of HK and Perth is about 6000 km while from HK to Moscow is about 7100 km. The HK-AUS flights are long haul flights, not much different from going to Europe.
Moreover, I'm doing a solo in a race (with a crew) in 2 weeks time (not as long as Rottnest, but colder than Rottnest), and planning to do another solo in a longer and possibly colder race in half a year afterwards, but well - it can prepare my body to complete those big solo swims physically but not my mind, especially when if my first big solo swim will be too famous to fail, because when doing races I'm racing for time and place, and other competitors as well.
Somehow I am trying to remain humble in front of the 07 topic, as I am yet far from being at that point.
Yet, Trust me, Ijilsselmeer is a once in a lifetime challenge, because in that "race" you get conditions where in a standard normal race they would advice you to wait for the next day (participants afiliated to swim federations, 40% dnf).
Also, the races you may ref to.. where there's a mass of participants does not compare to the ones indicated.. for Rottnest you have your own boat, captain, assistant and kayaker. I had a team of 4 people.
For Ijlsselmeer I had also a team of four: captain, coach, assistant, observer + dedicated boat.
I don't think these races are incomparable to the solo's you are targeting and thinking of the whole logistics involved (dedicated to one swimmer, not for engross), in some cases you might have a bigger boat/ number of crew etc than in "lifetime" solo.
I haven't given you the example of Bosphor with a hand of boats for 2k swimmers.
now there's a new event out there, in EU, Antibes.. 30k, 18 degrees water, the financial effort is about less than 500 eur and you get everything that you may want for a "solo" event.
So before going to a commercial solo, historical, equivalent of a car equivalent value event, I think there a lot of events that may make many reconsider their life, to gather experience, on a good price.
Isn't this pro race which follows FINA rule and entry is thru national federation? I'm looking at their website and getting this conclusion. And it seems that you need to get 2:45 10 km in open water or 2:35 in pool to qualify for the race.
I can't make the cut off for that race - my expected 10 km time is 4 hours.
I'm almost afraid to engage in this convo, but here goes....
I see a couple of train wrecks happening with you, @Miklcct. If you have issues with cold (you've mentioned that here and on USMS forums) and you have issues with time (4hr 10k), combined, you're going to likely have problems with bigger distances. The longer you're in the water and not acclimated to it, the harder it's going to be. Don't you think you should work on speed/efficiency more for another year or two to get your 10k time down to around 3:30?
Agree nearly afraid to engage in this convo but you could be in for a trainwreck @Miklcct. I am currently training for a 21.5km and a work colleague has also entered with limited training background. The issues that she will have is speed to qualify as need 10km in 4 hours. @Miklcct the same issue applies your 4hr at 10km is not going to cut it out in the open water and at this stage fear what will become of your speed at the 20km, to prevent a trainwreck a requirement for most channel swims is a comfortable 3km an hour so gives you a 3:20 which is really the minimum so get back in the pool "do the miles do the speed work do the hard work"
Enjoy the challenges but work smarter
What 21.5 km are you doing? I'm finding some 17 - 25 km races in the summer as well worldwide as my next goal if I am comfortable after my 15 km race this month. One of my target race is Vidösternsimmet which is a 21.5 km lake race with 10.5 hours time limit.
OK, everyone in the world (my fellow club members, the people in my OW group, the Facebook groups, and on various forums) is suggesting that my plan to do channel swimming in 2021 doesn't work. 3:20 for 10 km is unlikely to be achievable for me, even 3:40 is very challenging. The fact that I can't find training partners around my speed (4 hours for 10 km) while seeing those 3 hours 10 km (I consider this speed totally unachievable for me, like running 3 hours marathons) swimmers have their own secret group to do long training swims already make me very unhappy.
I don't think that swimming 4 hours for 10 km is really that bad, like running a full marathon for 4 hours, but it seems that I should give up all my dream swims to prevent the train crash.
21.5km swim the coast is Gold coast Australia at the end of May, qualifying swim under 4 hours for a 10km and the 21.5km is a generous 10 hour cut off. Dreams are good but the training has to match need good 100s 200s and 400 repeats and some 1km repeats will drop time quick of your current 4 hour 10km.
Training partners are good but you still have to bank on yourself, good for the mind when you are out in the middle of the ocean
Oh, boy. One of your swims is Hong Kong and you are there? Allow me to be the voice out of left field and say do NOT give up all your dream swims. . . Figure out what you really want, and look at what you need for THAT. In my case, I wanted Lake George. I had missed the cut off for finishing a 10K in 4 hours in 2016, and left the lake devastated. And furious that 1-I might have finished if I had paid attention during early laps, and 2- I could have kept swimming for hours if the course hadn't closed. I started planning to swim the length of the lake the following summer. 52K. I routinely swam 2-4 miles, and occasionally a few more. I was able to swim in a pool during the winter starting that January, so I built up mileage while the lake was frozen. By April, I was able to swim 10 miles one day and 15 the next in the pool, and once in the lake again in May, I was up to serious miles within weeks.
During that time, I asked around for crew ideas. No luck. "Experts" rang in and said I had to try swimming at night, and try big swims first- like the English Channel, or Lake Memphremagog (which is at least nearby, but still needed crew.) I "swam to the test" so to speak, since Lake George is my home turf. In July, I swam about 140 miles. I finally found a novice crew willing give me a chance. We did it. I learned a lot, hope to do things differently this summer, and finish stronger, but WE DID IT. One person told me to try the "big" swims first, and that a lot of people don't finish them, but it would be a good experience. I figured if I was going to try a swim and not make it, I was at least going to try the swim I actually wanted to do.
I'm slow. My last 10K in my lake was about 4:15. I will not be taking a half hour off that without a current assist. Currents do factor on the swims you mentioned, but you also mentioned that Hong Kong was waning in your interest. . . Find the swim you want. I don't want the Channel but I'm interested in swimming IN the Channel, across Utah and Omaha Beaches, one day. We shall see. Meanwhile, my lake is here. . . .I'm not done with it yet. GOOD LUCK.
Awesome swim - the best ones I find no fanfare no big deal all about your personal goal. Doing them at home needing limited funds and just a few people to look after you during swim time
Don't give up, just be more realistic. It takes most of us years to get past 10k. Enter some mid-range ones and don't be afraid of the DNF. Or just quit.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Mike you said this much more eloquently than I did, thank you!