He claimed he was a pro triathlete. .... wow! My masters coach is a pro triathlete w a marathon swimming background (he does flip turns) and he'd have told that guy a thing or two about pool behavior.
ssthomas said:
Ok, ok...my FAVORITE lap swim horror story.
About this time, I realize that they've been discussing for a while, so I pop my head up to see what was going on. My friend, again, being very nice, offered to get out so that he could split the lane with just me. I told her that was silly and that we could all happily swim circles. This guy then started to insist that we share his workout because he was a "professional" triathlete. I told him "NO" rather firmly and then continued on my workout.
This guy then commented to my friend that I didn't look like a very good swimmer.
Eventually, my friend got out and this guy got in. The "professional" triathlete didn't know how to do flip turns.
BTW as I was swimming my workout yesterday it occurred to me a nice way of letting the pro triathlete join in the lane and do his 50's. Get him to commit to a sendoff that is your 50 pace. That way you can swim your steady long set and he can thrash away on his 50's. Of course if he wants to do 50's on the :25 that might make things a bit difficult...
I have also used a different approach when I joined a lane where they were doing 100's on a pretty slow send off. I did I.M's which gave me a pretty good workout and I was able to swim with the group. I definitely had to work because I needed to get a bit of a lead on the first 50 so I didn't get run over when I swam my pathetic breast stroke leg.
PS to my earlier post in response to @ssthomas .... did he SERIOUSLY say you weren't a good swimmer? Just let HIM try swimming 80 miles! ^:)^ --> him to you....
I swam in a pool in France a couple of years ago, and apparently no-one in France gives way to faster swimmers, if you get stuck behind someone you just have to pass them down the middle of the lane. Made for an interesting challenge honestly.
dpm50 said:
He claimed he was a pro triathlete. .... wow! My masters coach is a pro triathlete w a marathon swimming background (he does flip turns) and he'd have told that guy a thing or two about pool behavior.
He said he was- I have no doubt that he wasn't. I've known a few and they are all really good swimmers. And not jerks. The jerk status in triathletes, I think, is reserved for those who want to be awesome, but don't quite make the cut. The real pros are great and the normal people just doing it for fun are also usually great. It's the in between ones that cause the issues. (but, that's another post!)
dc_in_sf said:
I swam in a pool in France a couple of years ago, and apparently no-one in France gives way to faster swimmers, if you get stuck behind someone you just have to pass them down the middle of the lane. Made for an interesting challenge honestly.
People in Colorado don't yield, either. I've found that one good crash and they pay better attention. I'm pretty good at knowing where everyone in my lane is and avoiding them (keeps it interesting), but they have to do their part, too, and not do random things like push off in front of you or change to breastroke in the middle of a lap or suddenly move from one side of the lane to the other right as you're doing a flip turn. I had someone try to swim under me while I was doing a flip turn once. We crashed- their fault. I didn't even stop.
One of my "favorite" pools has a slide that feeds into the lap lanes. They shut down those lanes when the side is in (of course), but the water coming down the chute made a HUGE current in the pool. First time in happened, I was annoyed. After that, I figured it was good training and always picked the lane closest to the slide. (I also swam 6000 meters there once when it was 95 degrees. The lifeguard tried to warn me before I got in, but I told him there are some things I'd I'd rather not know...)
While stationed in Monterey, CA, I had an experience along these lines. I was swimming one Sat. morning next to two lanes which were put aside for aqua-aerobics (they removed the middle lane line so those guys could do their exercises).
I was swimming, minding my own business, and I kept swallowing a mouthful of water on the far end just after the flip and on my first breath. COuldn't figure out what I was doing. Then on the third flip I noticed some guy in the aerobics lane was splashing me, aiming water directly into my mouth.
I stopped and asked him to stop splashing me, and he told me to do the same. Yes, there he stood, in the pool, with his big straw hat on, and he was upset I was somehow getting him wet. I reminded him he was in a pool and that he was purposefully trying to get me to choke on water when I was turning for a breath.
I continued swimming as usual and sure enough on the next lap he did the same thing. I stopped and raised my voice and asked him again to stop, at all times using "sir" even though he didn't deserve it. Once I got back to the "home" end of the lane, I jumped out and informed the lifeguard of what he was doing. She said she'd keep an eye on him.
Sure enough, another lap and he did it again. This time I stopped and pointed to him while looking at the lifeguard. She was already out of the chair and coming to talk to him, right in front of the aerobics teacher (up on the deck), interrupting her class. He was arguing with the lifeguard that I was getting him wet (somehow) on purpose. She talked with him for a while, recommending he move to another part of the class (apparently my flip-turn was what was getting him wet). He continued to argue with the lifeguard till she finally kicked him out of the pool.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
I hopped into a lane at my local pool this past weekend with a guy who told me he wasn't "comfortable" circle swimming. I pointed out that it was required when there were three swimmers. That guy also had left his towel on the deck, right next to the base of the pool block. It was soaked from the splash over from the other guy, who was doing flip turns (I open turn). When the cranky towel guy got out to leave, I got the look of death about his towel. Um, dude, you left it 1 foot from the side of the pool and your lane mate soaked it. Not my fault, not my problem.
(and I can't say that it was him, but my mesh pool bag with my spare caps and goggles vanished from where I'd left it on the pool block while I was swimming, and re-appeared later in the men's locker room. Could have been him, could have been someone else, but I think he was pretty pissed at me. I got the last laugh though because whoever grabbed the bag left their prescription goggles in it. I was nice and left them at the front desk.)
Gotta love the people in the WX class who choose to be near the lane line, then complain that they're getting splashed. One person demanded the very fast lane be moved to the edge of the pool, thinking that the easy lane swimmers wouldn't splash as much. I pointed out someone swimming in the easy lane who was flailing around and splashing so much that they were getting me wet while I was lifeguarding. So yeah, maybe not...
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
When I got to the pool today, the only open lane was an outside lane. Just as I was about to get started, a middle lane opened up. I was about 65 yards into my first 100 when I noticed that the person who left the middle lane was now swimming in the outside lane. He moved so I could have the middle lane. What a nice person. (Sorry, I just had to share a good story.)
Yesterday's lane session I shared with a triathlete. Nice bloke, no problems. Finished his set and said to me, "Well, that's my mile." I told him I still had 1500 of my set to do and he said, "I don't believe in overtraining." I was only having a gentle drill session after a Sunday beasting.
KatieBun said:
Yesterday's lane session I shared with a triathlete. Nice bloke, no problems. Finished his set and said to me, "Well, that's my mile." I told him I still had 1500 of my set to do and he said, "I don't believe in overtraining." I was only having a gentle drill session after a Sunday beasting.
I love these triathletes, because they're the ones I beat out of the water. Well, then they pass me later on the bike or the run, but sure, dude, keep that swim fitness at the bare minimum.
AnthonyMcCarley said:
When I got to the pool today, the only open lane was an outside lane. Just as I was about to get started, a middle lane opened up. I was about 65 yards into my first 100 when I noticed that the person who left the middle lane was now swimming in the outside lane. He moved so I could have the middle lane. What a nice person. (Sorry, I just had to share a good story.)
Start your own thread, @AnthonyMcCarley! You can call it "the joys of lap swimming." I'll even contribute! I have plenty of good stories, too. :-)
Today's lunch must have been the equivalent of Christmas Dinner for one bloke in my lane.................. actually, judging by the strength of the aroma, (I use the word loosely), I think he may have accidentally rolled in it. :-S
Today: half way through a 2.5k set and another swimmer gets in my lane...no problem there. After a few lengths I catch him up...again no real problem. I trail right behind him, slowing my pace, for the next 5 lengths and after completing each length despite him seeing me he continues to push off. On the 6th length I swim up behind him, tap his ankles so he knows where I am and then move beside HIM. He spots me, thrashes to speed up and complete a tumble turn which results in us colliding. I try to carry on and he kicks me. I shrug it off. A few laps later he's now doing backstroke and going slower so I catch him even quicker this time. When im right behind him I start to move around him and he moves to block me and then starts thrashing his leg kicking so he is splashing me. We end up stopping and I explained the finer points of lane etiquette but I don't think I got very far as he proceeded to swim breastroke for another 200m - bearing in mind all of this was happening in the clearly marked 'fast lane'. We have no lifeguards where I swim so im on my own and it can get tiresome with some people. Ah well...for every 1 ego maniac there are 9 decent and thoughtful swimmers!
I swam in a meet this weekend and experienced a whole new level of annoyance- and not being new to meet warm ups this was a new one on me!
I had slipped (feet first in a controlled manner- lol) into a lane to warm up... started down the lane and almost collided head on with a young man, who was racing down the wrong side of the lane! I continued to swim (now looking out for him) only to be continually run into by him or have him push off almost directly into me off the wall. I grabbed one of the people on deck and (not very nicely) asked them what the heck was going on? This kid is a menace!
In someone's infinite wisdom they decided that they where going to run a work out for this kid even though the pool was being used for a masters meet... Who the heck planned that?! And they didn't think to pull him off to one lane and have someone there to make sure no one got in thinking it was a warm up lane- since it was in the warm up pool right before a meet!
As annoying as that was- the kids manners where what just set me off- not once was he polite, or did he take a moment to say excuse me, or sorry. Or when he finished did he lean over to the people he about ran into head on... say I'm sorry about that.
Ugh..... some peoples kids!
I'm lucky enough to swim in a pool where, in 15 years, I only remember a few times with 3 persons in one lane. Hence people have get used to splitting lanes. No problem with that, though I'd rather circle (oh, and there are signs stating that circling is compulsory!).
Last Saturday afternoon, a young guy was mad to an old man who wanted to enter the lane which the young guy was splitting with another one. The young guy wanted the old one "to queue"!, waiting for any lane to get empty, so that only 2 persons would swim per lane... That is not lack of etiquette, that's simply stupidity!
(Obviously, the lifeguard settled the discussion. Poor young guy, forced to share the lane with another 2!).
At the times that I usually swim at our pool, it's pretty uncrowded. So usually there are two per lane at most, so we split mainly. The lanes are marked fast, med and slow, but generally people don't worry about the designation and swim where they feel like it. I have come in on occasion where the lanes are all doubled up. I head to the fast lane and get ready to circle swim. Usually what happens is that the slower swimmer will duck out and head to the slower lane or to the showers. Either way it works out.
I can't wait until summer and I can get back in the lake. Then I only need to worry about the jet skis...
Alright, I just had the worst experience ever this morning. It's been 12 hours and I'm still fired up about it.
Essentially, I got in to a lane first thing morning, right when our pool opened. It's always crowded on Sunday mornings, and I generally hate going first thing, but I was meeting a friend and no where else was opened early enough. So, when a guy asked if we could share, of course I said yes- all 6 long course lanes had 2-3 people in them right when the pool opened, so I didn't even think twice about agreeing to share.
So, random guy and I start swimming circles, another guy gets in a few minutes later. I was happy- both guys were fast swimmers and we were swimming along happily. Then, about 30 minutes into my workout, 10 of these guys' friends showed up to swim. Sometimes, groups buy a lane on Sundays to reserve it for their group, but I had checked the schedule before I got in and knew no lanes were reserved. Since all the other lanes had 3-4 swimmers in them already, I decided to stay in the lane I was in and just swim around these guys.
I actually thought things were going pretty well- I was passing them pretty frequently and easily. I could go by all 8-10 of them in a 50 and they were stopping enough that it wasn't too big of a deal. There was one flip turn collision where one lady pushed off in the middle and I straight didn't see her. Not sure what I could have really done since there were people all over and I was in the middle of passing the group. Otherwise, I avoided them when they were swimming fly and avoided the guy who wanted to kick side by side with his buddy- breastroke down the middle of the lane. I put up with them pushing off right in front of me. I changed my workout and did random stuff to try and accommodate them and not cause too much of an issue. I truly thought things were going ok.
Until I stopped to start my warm down. Three grown men started screaming at me (I'm not exaggerating the screaming part). They were telling me I was rude, accused me of purposely colliding with a pregnant lady, hogging the lane, etc. Not in the mood to be bullied, I did argue back- reminding them that they were rude to come with a large group and not pay for their own lane and to refuse to accommodate another swimmer who wanted to do a workout. The first guy who asked to share at the start mumbled something about how he told me "had friends coming later." (which was a lie) Eventually, I was tired of hearing it and arguing, so I just started swimming my warm down. They were all standing there when I was finished, and I got a sarcastic "have a nice day" from a chick. I grabbed my stuff (which was buried under their kickboards, fins, etc) and walked away. Some lady came to follow me to try to give me "her perspective." I apologized to her for running into her friend- but reminded her that it takes two to crash and that they weren't following standard lane etiquette. I shared with her that I hadn't been upset until her friends ganged up on me and started yelling at me, and that from my "perspective" they were the ones who were rude and inconsiderate to expect to run a lap lane by intimidating other swimmers out of their space. She gave me a good "whatever" and walked away,
They were rocking some Maxim swim caps. Makes me pretty glad I told the Maxim folks no thanks when they offered me free product. CarboPro for life! ;-)
So, I'm sure I could have changed lanes (most others would have), but I didn't know I was going to get screamed at for swimming.
Next up, an email to the pool manager to learn more about the policy of large groups taking over lap lanes, while bullying others for trying to share a lane with them.
Wow, that totally sucks. Contacting the manager is definitely in order.
"You're hogging the lane" is code for you're faster than me and I resent it. A guard who used to work for me would say "well, you ARE in the fast lane..." when people would complain about being "run over" (passed). Personally, while swimming, I've had people say I was hogging the lane and running over them. One woman thought I should stop and let her swim for a while, it was just the two of us... she also accused me of running over her. I replied that I never touched her, that it was called passing, (because she was two lanes above her ability level) and that if I had actually run over her, she would know it. She complained to the lifeguard and he told her she should get in the medium lane next time.
You didn't say if the pool had lane speed signs, but if not, I would request that they get some. This helps swimmers understand expectations and be in the right place. It helps the guards to enforce policies, keep swimmers safe and foster an environment where everyone can enjoy their swim time.
Same goes for lap lane rules signs. The more clearly expectations are posted, the more likely swimmers are to behave appropriately and staff have grounds to enforce posted rules. My staff have the authority to ask people to leave if they refuse to comply with the rules or if they become verbally abusive to others. Every now and then, a swimmer is threatened with the police being called, (won't get out at the end of the swim, cusses out staff, threatens other swimmers, etc.) which usually gets them out of the water and on their way quickly.
It sounds like you were the fastest swimmer in the lane. If that was my pool and you were in the very fast lane, then you have the right of way. Staff should've intervened and asked some of the slower swimmers to move to another lane. If the guards couldn't identify the risks involved with what was going on in your lane, they need more training or another career.
At the long course pool I manage during the summer, sometimes a swim team coach will show up with a dozen teens and expect to run a workout during lap swim. We don't allow private coaches/workouts during public time, although the kids are welcome to swim, as long as they follow the rules. Any group attempting to swim a set together during a public lap time should yield the right of way to faster swimmers and be flexible enough to accommodate others in the lane, (as in, your interval is not more important than anyone else's). At a pool I worked at ~15 years ago, a guy was knocked out cold by a kid who did a backstroke start from the block(without looking first). Injuries due to collisions can be very serious, so we never allow lane splitting (circle swimming only) and my staff are very good about correcting swimmers who pose a danger to themselves and others.
I hope the manager takes your email seriously and makes changes to avoid situations like this from happening again.
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
You didn't say if the pool had lane speed signs, but if not, I would request that they get some. This helps swimmers understand expectations and be in the right place. It helps the guards to enforce policies, keep swimmers safe and foster an environment where everyone can enjoy their swim time.
The pool does not have speed signs, which will be one of my suggestions. Most of the time, it's not really crowded enough to need it- there is rarely more than 2 people in a lane when I'm there (i.e. I don't have any clue what weekday mornings look like), except for on Sunday mornings. But, Sundays, when there are 4+ people in a lane, it would be pretty nice to have that organization.
And @wendyv34, thanks for the support from an experienced swimmer/life guard. I've been playing the situation over and over in my head to determine if I did wrong. Yes, I could have swum slower (a lot slower) and turned around in the middle of the pool to avoid flip turns- but that's equally unfair to me. I'd already adjusted my workout (no kicking, no stroke, no repeatable intervals, etc to avoid getting in the way of their intervals/set).
This kept me up last night- I still can't get over how awful it was.
That does sound horrible. I don't think you did a single thing wrong (and maybe I'm a jerk, because I would probably have asked them to split themselves up across the pool rather than all climbing in one lane, and if they refused I probably would have gotten the guards involved.)
MoCo said:
That does sound horrible. I don't think you did a single thing wrong (and maybe I'm a jerk, because I would probably have asked them to split themselves up across the pool rather than all climbing in one lane, and if they refused I probably would have gotten the guards involved.)
I guess that's what's hard about this for me: I can be intense, I can be feisty- but I try SO HARD not to be a jerk. I'm also not a pushover- which is probably what caused this in the first place. I know what being bullied looks like, and I was being bullied. I suppose I should be glad it was me and not someone else. I probably won't go swim alone on Sunday mornings for a while...
No way in H should that many lap swimmer ever be in one lane. It just isn't safe. The pool needs a maximum per lane, unless of course they are renting their own lane.
MoCo said:
That does sound horrible. I don't think you did a single thing wrong (and maybe I'm a jerk, because I would probably have asked them to split themselves up across the pool rather than all climbing in one lane, and if they refused I probably would have gotten the guards involved.)
I guess that's what's hard about this for me: I can be intense, I can be feisty- but I try SO HARD not to be a jerk. I'm also not a pushover- which is probably what caused this in the first place. I know what being bullied looks like, and I was being bullied. I suppose I should be glad it was me and not someone else. I probably won't go swim alone on Sunday mornings for a while...
I think you can be intense and feisty and NOT a jerk (I mostly try to be!). There's a really important difference between handling a crappy situation firmly and politely, and handling a crappy situation in full jackass mode. I have noticed that many of the blithely entitled folks who pull things like that don't really know what to do when you firmly, politely, push back with a no and then disengage. "Actually, no, I haven't been rude. Next time I suggest you follow pool policy and rent a lane if you'd like to make sure you have one to yourself. Have a nice day." Period, end of conversation. No justifying, no getting into a he said she said - just don't engage. Finish your swim, ignore the shrieking, and if they keep at it, get a guard involved. They're the jerks. Don't let them win.
It's difficult for fast, skilled lap swimmers and slow, unskilled lap swimmers to coexist in the same lane amicably. Each perceives the other to be swimming like a jerk.
evmo said:
It's difficult for fast, skilled lap swimmers and slow, unskilled lap swimmers to coexist in the same lane amicably. Each perceives the other to be swimming like a jerk.
Only one of them is right.
Not true. I can/have/will/do co-exist frequently with slow, unskilled lap swimmers in a very amicable setting. Only difference between those dozens of pasts situations and this one was that those others have always been friendly, said hello, asked to share, understood that I'm doing a workout, etc. I am also am friendly, say hello, ask to share, and understand they're doing a workout, too. I have huge respect for people training for tris, first long swims, or just getting exercise. If they thought I was in the way or causing issues- they could have flagged me down and let me know, rather than screaming at me- I honestly didn't know there was a problem. It took a full 30 seconds of the first guy berating me for me to even grasp what he was upset about.
I am SURE they thought I was a major asshole (since they told me). Problem is, they didn't even consider my perspective.
Really, the pool needs to be better organized with some better ground rules for when large groups come in unofficially to swim. I know I've had a group of 8 people come in before- and I know we were way more polite than those guys. We split up, shared our lanes with others, asked if we could share before getting in. One guy offered to move over so we could have one lane for 5 of us with the others spread out. We were appreciative (and hadn't asked him to move). There's just better ways they could have done it, rather than trying to bulldoze others and then screaming at them when things weren't going their way.
Difficult, not impossible! I've swam at pools where, at certain hours, an "incident" was more likely than not. Even more likely when a fast swimmer is with a bunch of slow swimmers. Exacerbated by lack of clearly posted rules or speed signs, and poor lifeguarding.
Sounds like you encountered a perfect storm. And I think you handled it perfectly.
Man, that is pissing me off just reading it. It is fortunately rare that such complete jerks get to ruin a swim, but it does happen. One question. I was wondering if you could have just moved over to a less crowded lane. I personally don't like to move lanes once I've started and I also don't particularly like being taken advantage of. But sometimes when you are outnumbered you let the assholes win. I know it's wrong on so many levels, but sometimes it's best to live to fight another day.
curly said:
Man, that is pissing me off just reading it. It is fortunately rare that such complete jerks get to ruin a swim, but it does happen. One question. I was wondering if you could have just moved over to a less crowded lane. I personally don't like to move lanes once I've started and I also don't particularly like being taken advantage of. But sometimes when you are outnumbered you let the assholes win. I know it's wrong on so many levels, but sometimes it's best to live to fight another day.
I actually did stop a few times to check out the other lanes in the pool. It was hard to see 100% since I was in lane 2, but all of the other lanes had about 3 or 4 people already. I know the lane next me had 5 (and the lane on the other side is a half lane with a handicap ladder, which 2 people were already sharing- having done that, it's difficult). I honestly thought chaos and harder swimming for me was better for the whole pool in the long run (I suppose that's what makes me fired up- I was honestly doing my best to stay out of everyone's way). In 45 minutes, there was one collision and they were stopping enough that I thought we were able to stay out of each other's way pretty well. No matter where I had moved to, I was going to annoy someone and I really thought that staying put was the better choice. I didn't know I was being so offensive by trying to swim, since I didn't get yelled at until I was on my warm down.
I'll get over it- and I appreciate you guys letting me vent. You guys rock. :-)
....................continued from Joys of Lap Swimming..................... about 2k into a session which was feeling really good, I caught my wrist on the darned blessed lane rope and the lap button on my Garmin pinged off into the far blue yonder. Such is life. sigh
I had a thought during my swim this afternoon. In a blessedly empty pool... I realized that you found out about the aggravated swimmers at the end of your swim. So, version two of what you could have done. (Why do I always think of great ways to end a confrontation well after it's occurred.) You stand there and listen to them tell you what a crap swimmer you are. You don't say anything, you just stand there comfortably, with maybe even a slight smile on your face. After they finish yelling at you, you calmly climb out of the pool and start retrieving your stuff. And then you lean over to the biggest jerk and with a nice smile you say. "By the way, you are swimming in my piss." And then you walk away.
LOL Curly! When I see kids spitting water at others I say "you know people pee in that water, right?" You see the moment when they realize that they have pee in their mouth, priceless! )
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
ssthomas, you handled a very hard situation really well. For the life of me I just do not understand why people act like this in pools. If this was at a track and you all where running laps I doubt this would have happened, people move over and give way to the faster runner typically without issue. There is a large path by my house, and runners, walkers, and for the most part bikers, coexist without these issues. But add water and lane lines... People will be down right horrible in a lap lane, and not think twice about getting in a swimmers way, hogging a whole wall, etc... I just don't get it.
Hopefully your email and notes to the pool manager will help!
Update: I did speak to a manager last night in person. As I expected, he was VERY nice about it. I admit- I cried. But, he took my suggestions (though, he said they'd tried to designate lap lanes by speed before and it didn't work) and apologized more than he needed to. He also said he'd work with his guards to be more alert about situations like that (I told him there was no way they could have heard the altercation since they were on the other side of the pool and as we know, pools are loud). So, the interaction with pool management was great.
I also did track down a few people who I know were with the group a few weeks ago. They apologized on behalf of the group. I gave them some pointers on what they can teach their friends about lane etiquette and lap swimming expectations. I'm still appalled and will make sure I'm not at the pool at 8 am for a long time, but otherwise, it's time for me to move on. ;-)
Oh, PS: The manager told me that at the other pool he manages, he's had to deal with adults kicking and shoving each other to get out of their lanes. I've been at that pool sometimes (it's a REALLY HOT, old 25 meter pool- but for a quick 5k-6k, it's ok), and I'm glad I've never seen that happening! I'd lose it if I saw it happen to someone else! I just swam there last Wednesday and shared a small lane with 2 very nice ladies, who actually invited me into their lane when they saw me waiting! (That should probably go into the joys thread...)
@ssthomas I am appalled (but, unfortunately, not that surprised) by that behavior- I am sorry you had to work that episode through your head as it makes NO sense!
As an aside, though; the speed designated lanes (in my experience) can be problematic also because everyone thinks they are "fast." I know I am not "fast" compared to many swimmers but I am "faster" than most of the lap swimmers most of the time. If a swimmer is the fastest swimmer in his whole tri club does he/she go in the fast lane? And on. And on. "But I am the fastest swimmer in my whole family!"...
+Old person rant:
I do know that as a fairly introverted teenage lifeguard I was instructed to (and did) intervene in situations like this and NEVER do I see any guards moderating lanes these days (in the pools which make up my world)!
At my Y, there are speed signs, and it's just ad you describe. People's pride is involved. And so my usual procedure is to look at the different speeds and strokes for a moment, then pick out a lane compatible w my speed. Sometimes that results in my being in the fast lane, sometimes the medium, rarely the slow lane, snice it's also the water walkers'lane, so any swimmers are doing a very slow breaststroke.
jendut said: @ssthomas I am appalled (but, unfortunately, not that surprised) by that behavior- I am sorry you had to work that episode through your head as it makes NO sense!
As an aside, though; the speed designated lanes (in my experience) can be problematic also because everyone thinks they are "fast." I know I am not "fast" compared to many swimmers but I am "faster" than most of the lap swimmers most of the time. If a swimmer is the fastest swimmer in his whole tri club does he/she go in the fast lane? And on. And on.
I think you've done a great job in managing to put such a raw experience behind you, @ssthomas Being on the receiving end of such unpleasantness from a large group of people would be enough to upset the strongest and feistiest of people. You handled it with dignity. Good to hear that the management have taken your suggestions on board. It's true that speed signs don't always work, but they certainly help. Let's hope they're prepared to give it a go.
+Old person rant:
I do know that as a fairly introverted teenage lifeguard I was instructed to (and did) intervene in situations like this and NEVER do I see any guards moderating lanes these days (in the pools which make up my world)!
The pool manager seemed pretty sure that his guards were equipped and knew they were supposed to intervene in this type of situation. I'm not convinced that some kids should have to mediate a fight between grown adults (SO STUPID). So, we'll see what happens!
dpm50 said:
At my Y, there are speed signs, and it's just ad you describe. People's pride is involved. And so my usual procedure is to look at the different speeds and strokes for a moment, then pick out a lane compatible w my speed. Sometimes that results in my being in the fast lane, sometimes the medium, rarely the slow lane, snice it's also the water walkers'lane, so any swimmers are doing a very slow breaststroke.
>
The manager said they've tried and it didn't work- my thought was just that it would give the guards more authority to move people if needed. Someones causing an issue: They now have authority to say, "you're in the wrong lane, why don't you move over here for the rest of your workout. I've never had a pool with speed signs, so I have no idea if it works or not- but it's worth a shot to help regulate the Sunday morning chaos. :-)
We tell people that speed is relative and of course, they may swim in the empty "very fast" lane but will need to yield if someone faster comes along. Instead of telling people "you're in the wrong lane", my staff are instructed to tell people "I think you will enjoy your swim more in this lane". The aim is always to educate, not insult them, which usually has better results. I added little laminated sheets to our lane speed signs that highlight applicable rules, like "welcome to the very fast lane, yield at the wall to allow faster swimmers to pass and move to a slower lane if passed frequently". We use being lapped in 200 yards (or less) as a good indicator of when a person should move up or down.
It does work, but management needs to stick with it. We went to circle swimming only in 2010 when a nearby pool was being torn down and rebuilt, knowing that our pool would become more crowded. We were already intervening on a weekly basis to prevent collisions when lane splitting swimmers would ignore the 3rd person getting in, then that person would get frustrated and start swimming anyway. We rescued a woman who had collided with her husband in a two-lane open area that we intend for senior/disabled swimmers, she went to the hospital.
I designed a detailed handout that broke down the finer points of lap lane etiquette and explained the reasons (safety!) for the change. I ended the document by stating "If you feel compelled to ask someone to lane split, please reconsider your choice of lanes and move to the correct speed lane". It took a few weeks to get everyone on board, but most people were understanding and supported us. Our regulars are great about educating new swimmers. I love hearing them say, when asked to split the lane, "they don't allow that here, we need to circle swim". This frequently leads to a conversation about what kind of set they are swimming, how they will share the lane, learning each other's names and good vibes.
You are welcome to share my email address with your pool manager if they need advice or help: wendy dot vandesompele at seattle dot gov .
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
Well I wish we could clone wendyv34 and post her clones at every lap pool on the planet. My local lap pool is actually well managed, so I have little to complain about. Plus we make sure to be extra nice to the professional, helpful and efficient lifeguards. Also, along with other "serious" swimmers I often swim with, we make an effort to be sociable pool users. For example, while we may take over one or two of the fast lanes, when the pool is busy we keep a high swimmer per lane count (4 or 5 in a SCM pool), which works fine as we are on the same workout program and used to circle swimming lane discipline. As a consequence I think we have less risk that other pool users will either resent or disrupt us. The community chairman of the facility calls us the "Blue Angels". Recently, the downward directing nozzle on the water circulation jet at the deep end of the fast lane broke off, resulting in endless pool type conditions as you approach the wall. Remarkably, the lane is now always empty and waiting Plus my deep end to shallow end 25s have suddenly become much faster!
This thread makes my aggravations seem pretty mild. I am mostly fortunate to swim at off-peak times, but as I live in an old American east coast city, the pools are small and scarce. My main spot is five relatively narrow lanes, and though the clientele understand the basic concept of circling, none of them enjoy themselves. I think maybe it runs counter to the prevailing wisdom in the rest of the endurance-sport-training-world, where the slower athlete is allowed to maintain, and the faster one obliged to find a safe way to pass. Imagine getting upset because a slower cyclist failed to pull off the bike path so a faster cyclist could charge by unimpeded. That would and should never happen, and I think many who didn't grow up swimmers assume the same principles apply. But that would be chaos. The faster swimmer needs the right-of-way, or nothing works.
It's almost always not a problem at my main pool, where splitting is the norm until things get really crowded. Personally, I have never asked to circle -- because I know the slower swimmers dread it so -- and prefer to queue rather than ruin their day. I've also never declined to circle when asked. One day, however, I had been waiting a while, and one nice gentleman took it upon himself to ask his lane mate to circle so I could get in. The guy said no, so at that point, I was honor-bound to invoke the rules and force my way in. They guy lasted about 150 and exited in a huff, and me and the other guy had a nice laugh.
This should probably just go into a Perils of Pool Swimming thread, but since we don't have that one, I'm placing it here:
Holy cow- Last night there was the biggest, most disgusting hair/snot/trash ball floating below my lane. It was huge. It was nasty. And it was hoovering just below me for HOURS. Gag, gag, gag! I had to keep my eye on it, in case it floated up and tried to hit me in the face. :-D
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Professional
swimmertriathlete.... ha! chortle! Those are the guys that are just asking to get beat up.He claimed he was a pro triathlete. .... wow! My masters coach is a pro triathlete w a marathon swimming background (he does flip turns) and he'd have told that guy a thing or two about pool behavior.
BTW as I was swimming my workout yesterday it occurred to me a nice way of letting the pro triathlete join in the lane and do his 50's. Get him to commit to a sendoff that is your 50 pace. That way you can swim your steady long set and he can thrash away on his 50's. Of course if he wants to do 50's on the :25 that might make things a bit difficult...
I have also used a different approach when I joined a lane where they were doing 100's on a pretty slow send off. I did I.M's which gave me a pretty good workout and I was able to swim with the group. I definitely had to work because I needed to get a bit of a lead on the first 50 so I didn't get run over when I swam my pathetic breast stroke leg.
PS to my earlier post in response to @ssthomas .... did he SERIOUSLY say you weren't a good swimmer? Just let HIM try swimming 80 miles! ^:)^ --> him to you....
I swam in a pool in France a couple of years ago, and apparently no-one in France gives way to faster swimmers, if you get stuck behind someone you just have to pass them down the middle of the lane. Made for an interesting challenge honestly.
http://notdrowningswimming.com - open water adventures of a very ordinary swimmer
ssthomas- wow!!! That is a crazy story- at least I have not had to deal with security being called at the pool- nuts!
Also thank you suziedods for my new favorite word- pootle!!!!
He said he was- I have no doubt that he wasn't. I've known a few and they are all really good swimmers. And not jerks. The jerk status in triathletes, I think, is reserved for those who want to be awesome, but don't quite make the cut. The real pros are great and the normal people just doing it for fun are also usually great. It's the in between ones that cause the issues. (but, that's another post!)
People in Colorado don't yield, either. I've found that one good crash and they pay better attention. I'm pretty good at knowing where everyone in my lane is and avoiding them (keeps it interesting), but they have to do their part, too, and not do random things like push off in front of you or change to breastroke in the middle of a lap or suddenly move from one side of the lane to the other right as you're doing a flip turn. I had someone try to swim under me while I was doing a flip turn once. We crashed- their fault. I didn't even stop.
One of my "favorite" pools has a slide that feeds into the lap lanes. They shut down those lanes when the side is in (of course), but the water coming down the chute made a HUGE current in the pool. First time in happened, I was annoyed. After that, I figured it was good training and always picked the lane closest to the slide. (I also swam 6000 meters there once when it was 95 degrees. The lifeguard tried to warn me before I got in, but I told him there are some things I'd I'd rather not know...)
While stationed in Monterey, CA, I had an experience along these lines. I was swimming one Sat. morning next to two lanes which were put aside for aqua-aerobics (they removed the middle lane line so those guys could do their exercises).
I was swimming, minding my own business, and I kept swallowing a mouthful of water on the far end just after the flip and on my first breath. COuldn't figure out what I was doing. Then on the third flip I noticed some guy in the aerobics lane was splashing me, aiming water directly into my mouth.
I stopped and asked him to stop splashing me, and he told me to do the same. Yes, there he stood, in the pool, with his big straw hat on, and he was upset I was somehow getting him wet. I reminded him he was in a pool and that he was purposefully trying to get me to choke on water when I was turning for a breath.
I continued swimming as usual and sure enough on the next lap he did the same thing. I stopped and raised my voice and asked him again to stop, at all times using "sir" even though he didn't deserve it. Once I got back to the "home" end of the lane, I jumped out and informed the lifeguard of what he was doing. She said she'd keep an eye on him.
Sure enough, another lap and he did it again. This time I stopped and pointed to him while looking at the lifeguard. She was already out of the chair and coming to talk to him, right in front of the aerobics teacher (up on the deck), interrupting her class. He was arguing with the lifeguard that I was getting him wet (somehow) on purpose. She talked with him for a while, recommending he move to another part of the class (apparently my flip-turn was what was getting him wet). He continued to argue with the lifeguard till she finally kicked him out of the pool.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
I hopped into a lane at my local pool this past weekend with a guy who told me he wasn't "comfortable" circle swimming. I pointed out that it was required when there were three swimmers. That guy also had left his towel on the deck, right next to the base of the pool block. It was soaked from the splash over from the other guy, who was doing flip turns (I open turn). When the cranky towel guy got out to leave, I got the look of death about his towel. Um, dude, you left it 1 foot from the side of the pool and your lane mate soaked it. Not my fault, not my problem.
(and I can't say that it was him, but my mesh pool bag with my spare caps and goggles vanished from where I'd left it on the pool block while I was swimming, and re-appeared later in the men's locker room. Could have been him, could have been someone else, but I think he was pretty pissed at me. I got the last laugh though because whoever grabbed the bag left their prescription goggles in it. I was nice and left them at the front desk.)
Gotta love the people in the WX class who choose to be near the lane line, then complain that they're getting splashed. One person demanded the very fast lane be moved to the edge of the pool, thinking that the easy lane swimmers wouldn't splash as much. I pointed out someone swimming in the easy lane who was flailing around and splashing so much that they were getting me wet while I was lifeguarding. So yeah, maybe not...
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
Another item on the list of perils. School was out yesterday for some reason.... enough said...
When I got to the pool today, the only open lane was an outside lane. Just as I was about to get started, a middle lane opened up. I was about 65 yards into my first 100 when I noticed that the person who left the middle lane was now swimming in the outside lane. He moved so I could have the middle lane. What a nice person. (Sorry, I just had to share a good story.)
Yesterday's lane session I shared with a triathlete. Nice bloke, no problems. Finished his set and said to me, "Well, that's my mile." I told him I still had 1500 of my set to do and he said, "I don't believe in overtraining." I was only having a gentle drill session after a Sunday beasting.
I love these triathletes, because they're the ones I beat out of the water. Well, then they pass me later on the bike or the run, but sure, dude, keep that swim fitness at the bare minimum.
Start your own thread, @AnthonyMcCarley! You can call it "the joys of lap swimming." I'll even contribute! I have plenty of good stories, too. :-)
Today's lunch must have been the equivalent of Christmas Dinner for one bloke in my lane.................. actually, judging by the strength of the aroma, (I use the word loosely), I think he may have accidentally rolled in it. :-S
Today: half way through a 2.5k set and another swimmer gets in my lane...no problem there. After a few lengths I catch him up...again no real problem. I trail right behind him, slowing my pace, for the next 5 lengths and after completing each length despite him seeing me he continues to push off. On the 6th length I swim up behind him, tap his ankles so he knows where I am and then move beside HIM. He spots me, thrashes to speed up and complete a tumble turn which results in us colliding. I try to carry on and he kicks me. I shrug it off. A few laps later he's now doing backstroke and going slower so I catch him even quicker this time. When im right behind him I start to move around him and he moves to block me and then starts thrashing his leg kicking so he is splashing me. We end up stopping and I explained the finer points of lane etiquette but I don't think I got very far as he proceeded to swim breastroke for another 200m - bearing in mind all of this was happening in the clearly marked 'fast lane'. We have no lifeguards where I swim so im on my own and it can get tiresome with some people. Ah well...for every 1 ego maniac there are 9 decent and thoughtful swimmers!
Wow. That is a major series of jerk moves. Several of my guard staff would've taken great pleasure in verbally ripping that clown a new one.
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
I swam in a meet this weekend and experienced a whole new level of annoyance- and not being new to meet warm ups this was a new one on me!
I had slipped (feet first in a controlled manner- lol) into a lane to warm up... started down the lane and almost collided head on with a young man, who was racing down the wrong side of the lane! I continued to swim (now looking out for him) only to be continually run into by him or have him push off almost directly into me off the wall. I grabbed one of the people on deck and (not very nicely) asked them what the heck was going on? This kid is a menace!
In someone's infinite wisdom they decided that they where going to run a work out for this kid even though the pool was being used for a masters meet... Who the heck planned that?! And they didn't think to pull him off to one lane and have someone there to make sure no one got in thinking it was a warm up lane- since it was in the warm up pool right before a meet!
As annoying as that was- the kids manners where what just set me off- not once was he polite, or did he take a moment to say excuse me, or sorry. Or when he finished did he lean over to the people he about ran into head on... say I'm sorry about that.
Ugh..... some peoples kids!
Sorry I had to vent on that one!
I'm lucky enough to swim in a pool where, in 15 years, I only remember a few times with 3 persons in one lane. Hence people have get used to splitting lanes. No problem with that, though I'd rather circle (oh, and there are signs stating that circling is compulsory!).
Last Saturday afternoon, a young guy was mad to an old man who wanted to enter the lane which the young guy was splitting with another one. The young guy wanted the old one "to queue"!, waiting for any lane to get empty, so that only 2 persons would swim per lane... That is not lack of etiquette, that's simply stupidity!
(Obviously, the lifeguard settled the discussion. Poor young guy, forced to share the lane with another 2!).
dieciseisgrados.com/
At the times that I usually swim at our pool, it's pretty uncrowded. So usually there are two per lane at most, so we split mainly. The lanes are marked fast, med and slow, but generally people don't worry about the designation and swim where they feel like it. I have come in on occasion where the lanes are all doubled up. I head to the fast lane and get ready to circle swim. Usually what happens is that the slower swimmer will duck out and head to the slower lane or to the showers. Either way it works out.
I can't wait until summer and I can get back in the lake. Then I only need to worry about the jet skis...
Alright, I just had the worst experience ever this morning. It's been 12 hours and I'm still fired up about it.
Essentially, I got in to a lane first thing morning, right when our pool opened. It's always crowded on Sunday mornings, and I generally hate going first thing, but I was meeting a friend and no where else was opened early enough. So, when a guy asked if we could share, of course I said yes- all 6 long course lanes had 2-3 people in them right when the pool opened, so I didn't even think twice about agreeing to share.
So, random guy and I start swimming circles, another guy gets in a few minutes later. I was happy- both guys were fast swimmers and we were swimming along happily. Then, about 30 minutes into my workout, 10 of these guys' friends showed up to swim. Sometimes, groups buy a lane on Sundays to reserve it for their group, but I had checked the schedule before I got in and knew no lanes were reserved. Since all the other lanes had 3-4 swimmers in them already, I decided to stay in the lane I was in and just swim around these guys.
I actually thought things were going pretty well- I was passing them pretty frequently and easily. I could go by all 8-10 of them in a 50 and they were stopping enough that it wasn't too big of a deal. There was one flip turn collision where one lady pushed off in the middle and I straight didn't see her. Not sure what I could have really done since there were people all over and I was in the middle of passing the group. Otherwise, I avoided them when they were swimming fly and avoided the guy who wanted to kick side by side with his buddy- breastroke down the middle of the lane. I put up with them pushing off right in front of me. I changed my workout and did random stuff to try and accommodate them and not cause too much of an issue. I truly thought things were going ok.
Until I stopped to start my warm down. Three grown men started screaming at me (I'm not exaggerating the screaming part). They were telling me I was rude, accused me of purposely colliding with a pregnant lady, hogging the lane, etc. Not in the mood to be bullied, I did argue back- reminding them that they were rude to come with a large group and not pay for their own lane and to refuse to accommodate another swimmer who wanted to do a workout. The first guy who asked to share at the start mumbled something about how he told me "had friends coming later." (which was a lie) Eventually, I was tired of hearing it and arguing, so I just started swimming my warm down. They were all standing there when I was finished, and I got a sarcastic "have a nice day" from a chick. I grabbed my stuff (which was buried under their kickboards, fins, etc) and walked away. Some lady came to follow me to try to give me "her perspective." I apologized to her for running into her friend- but reminded her that it takes two to crash and that they weren't following standard lane etiquette. I shared with her that I hadn't been upset until her friends ganged up on me and started yelling at me, and that from my "perspective" they were the ones who were rude and inconsiderate to expect to run a lap lane by intimidating other swimmers out of their space. She gave me a good "whatever" and walked away,
They were rocking some Maxim swim caps. Makes me pretty glad I told the Maxim folks no thanks when they offered me free product. CarboPro for life! ;-)
So, I'm sure I could have changed lanes (most others would have), but I didn't know I was going to get screamed at for swimming.
Next up, an email to the pool manager to learn more about the policy of large groups taking over lap lanes, while bullying others for trying to share a lane with them.
Open water season can't come soon enough.
Wow, that totally sucks. Contacting the manager is definitely in order.
"You're hogging the lane" is code for you're faster than me and I resent it. A guard who used to work for me would say "well, you ARE in the fast lane..." when people would complain about being "run over" (passed). Personally, while swimming, I've had people say I was hogging the lane and running over them. One woman thought I should stop and let her swim for a while, it was just the two of us... she also accused me of running over her. I replied that I never touched her, that it was called passing, (because she was two lanes above her ability level) and that if I had actually run over her, she would know it. She complained to the lifeguard and he told her she should get in the medium lane next time.
You didn't say if the pool had lane speed signs, but if not, I would request that they get some. This helps swimmers understand expectations and be in the right place. It helps the guards to enforce policies, keep swimmers safe and foster an environment where everyone can enjoy their swim time.
Same goes for lap lane rules signs. The more clearly expectations are posted, the more likely swimmers are to behave appropriately and staff have grounds to enforce posted rules. My staff have the authority to ask people to leave if they refuse to comply with the rules or if they become verbally abusive to others. Every now and then, a swimmer is threatened with the police being called, (won't get out at the end of the swim, cusses out staff, threatens other swimmers, etc.) which usually gets them out of the water and on their way quickly.
It sounds like you were the fastest swimmer in the lane. If that was my pool and you were in the very fast lane, then you have the right of way. Staff should've intervened and asked some of the slower swimmers to move to another lane. If the guards couldn't identify the risks involved with what was going on in your lane, they need more training or another career.
At the long course pool I manage during the summer, sometimes a swim team coach will show up with a dozen teens and expect to run a workout during lap swim. We don't allow private coaches/workouts during public time, although the kids are welcome to swim, as long as they follow the rules. Any group attempting to swim a set together during a public lap time should yield the right of way to faster swimmers and be flexible enough to accommodate others in the lane, (as in, your interval is not more important than anyone else's). At a pool I worked at ~15 years ago, a guy was knocked out cold by a kid who did a backstroke start from the block(without looking first). Injuries due to collisions can be very serious, so we never allow lane splitting (circle swimming only) and my staff are very good about correcting swimmers who pose a danger to themselves and others.
I hope the manager takes your email seriously and makes changes to avoid situations like this from happening again.
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
The pool does not have speed signs, which will be one of my suggestions. Most of the time, it's not really crowded enough to need it- there is rarely more than 2 people in a lane when I'm there (i.e. I don't have any clue what weekday mornings look like), except for on Sunday mornings. But, Sundays, when there are 4+ people in a lane, it would be pretty nice to have that organization.
And @wendyv34, thanks for the support from an experienced swimmer/life guard. I've been playing the situation over and over in my head to determine if I did wrong. Yes, I could have swum slower (a lot slower) and turned around in the middle of the pool to avoid flip turns- but that's equally unfair to me. I'd already adjusted my workout (no kicking, no stroke, no repeatable intervals, etc to avoid getting in the way of their intervals/set).
This kept me up last night- I still can't get over how awful it was.
That does sound horrible. I don't think you did a single thing wrong (and maybe I'm a jerk, because I would probably have asked them to split themselves up across the pool rather than all climbing in one lane, and if they refused I probably would have gotten the guards involved.)
I guess that's what's hard about this for me: I can be intense, I can be feisty- but I try SO HARD not to be a jerk. I'm also not a pushover- which is probably what caused this in the first place. I know what being bullied looks like, and I was being bullied. I suppose I should be glad it was me and not someone else. I probably won't go swim alone on Sunday mornings for a while...
No way in H should that many lap swimmer ever be in one lane. It just isn't safe. The pool needs a maximum per lane, unless of course they are renting their own lane.
I think you can be intense and feisty and NOT a jerk (I mostly try to be!). There's a really important difference between handling a crappy situation firmly and politely, and handling a crappy situation in full jackass mode. I have noticed that many of the blithely entitled folks who pull things like that don't really know what to do when you firmly, politely, push back with a no and then disengage. "Actually, no, I haven't been rude. Next time I suggest you follow pool policy and rent a lane if you'd like to make sure you have one to yourself. Have a nice day." Period, end of conversation. No justifying, no getting into a he said she said - just don't engage. Finish your swim, ignore the shrieking, and if they keep at it, get a guard involved. They're the jerks. Don't let them win.
It's difficult for fast, skilled lap swimmers and slow, unskilled lap swimmers to coexist in the same lane amicably. Each perceives the other to be swimming like a jerk.
Only one of them is right.
Not true. I can/have/will/do co-exist frequently with slow, unskilled lap swimmers in a very amicable setting. Only difference between those dozens of pasts situations and this one was that those others have always been friendly, said hello, asked to share, understood that I'm doing a workout, etc. I am also am friendly, say hello, ask to share, and understand they're doing a workout, too. I have huge respect for people training for tris, first long swims, or just getting exercise. If they thought I was in the way or causing issues- they could have flagged me down and let me know, rather than screaming at me- I honestly didn't know there was a problem. It took a full 30 seconds of the first guy berating me for me to even grasp what he was upset about.
I am SURE they thought I was a major asshole (since they told me). Problem is, they didn't even consider my perspective.
Really, the pool needs to be better organized with some better ground rules for when large groups come in unofficially to swim. I know I've had a group of 8 people come in before- and I know we were way more polite than those guys. We split up, shared our lanes with others, asked if we could share before getting in. One guy offered to move over so we could have one lane for 5 of us with the others spread out. We were appreciative (and hadn't asked him to move). There's just better ways they could have done it, rather than trying to bulldoze others and then screaming at them when things weren't going their way.
Difficult, not impossible! I've swam at pools where, at certain hours, an "incident" was more likely than not. Even more likely when a fast swimmer is with a bunch of slow swimmers. Exacerbated by lack of clearly posted rules or speed signs, and poor lifeguarding.
Sounds like you encountered a perfect storm. And I think you handled it perfectly.
Man, that is pissing me off just reading it. It is fortunately rare that such complete jerks get to ruin a swim, but it does happen. One question. I was wondering if you could have just moved over to a less crowded lane. I personally don't like to move lanes once I've started and I also don't particularly like being taken advantage of. But sometimes when you are outnumbered you let the assholes win. I know it's wrong on so many levels, but sometimes it's best to live to fight another day.
I actually did stop a few times to check out the other lanes in the pool. It was hard to see 100% since I was in lane 2, but all of the other lanes had about 3 or 4 people already. I know the lane next me had 5 (and the lane on the other side is a half lane with a handicap ladder, which 2 people were already sharing- having done that, it's difficult). I honestly thought chaos and harder swimming for me was better for the whole pool in the long run (I suppose that's what makes me fired up- I was honestly doing my best to stay out of everyone's way). In 45 minutes, there was one collision and they were stopping enough that I thought we were able to stay out of each other's way pretty well. No matter where I had moved to, I was going to annoy someone and I really thought that staying put was the better choice. I didn't know I was being so offensive by trying to swim, since I didn't get yelled at until I was on my warm down.
I'll get over it- and I appreciate you guys letting me vent. You guys rock. :-)
....................continued from Joys of Lap Swimming..................... about 2k into a session which was feeling really good, I caught my wrist on the darned blessed lane rope and the lap button on my Garmin pinged off into the far blue yonder. Such is life. sigh
I had a thought during my swim this afternoon. In a blessedly empty pool... I realized that you found out about the aggravated swimmers at the end of your swim. So, version two of what you could have done. (Why do I always think of great ways to end a confrontation well after it's occurred.) You stand there and listen to them tell you what a crap swimmer you are. You don't say anything, you just stand there comfortably, with maybe even a slight smile on your face. After they finish yelling at you, you calmly climb out of the pool and start retrieving your stuff. And then you lean over to the biggest jerk and with a nice smile you say. "By the way, you are swimming in my piss." And then you walk away.
LOL Curly! When I see kids spitting water at others I say "you know people pee in that water, right?" You see the moment when they realize that they have pee in their mouth, priceless!
)
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
ssthomas, you handled a very hard situation really well. For the life of me I just do not understand why people act like this in pools. If this was at a track and you all where running laps I doubt this would have happened, people move over and give way to the faster runner typically without issue. There is a large path by my house, and runners, walkers, and for the most part bikers, coexist without these issues. But add water and lane lines... People will be down right horrible in a lap lane, and not think twice about getting in a swimmers way, hogging a whole wall, etc... I just don't get it.
Hopefully your email and notes to the pool manager will help!
Update: I did speak to a manager last night in person. As I expected, he was VERY nice about it. I admit- I cried. But, he took my suggestions (though, he said they'd tried to designate lap lanes by speed before and it didn't work) and apologized more than he needed to. He also said he'd work with his guards to be more alert about situations like that (I told him there was no way they could have heard the altercation since they were on the other side of the pool and as we know, pools are loud). So, the interaction with pool management was great.
I also did track down a few people who I know were with the group a few weeks ago. They apologized on behalf of the group. I gave them some pointers on what they can teach their friends about lane etiquette and lap swimming expectations. I'm still appalled and will make sure I'm not at the pool at 8 am for a long time, but otherwise, it's time for me to move on. ;-)
Oh, PS: The manager told me that at the other pool he manages, he's had to deal with adults kicking and shoving each other to get out of their lanes. I've been at that pool sometimes (it's a REALLY HOT, old 25 meter pool- but for a quick 5k-6k, it's ok), and I'm glad I've never seen that happening! I'd lose it if I saw it happen to someone else! I just swam there last Wednesday and shared a small lane with 2 very nice ladies, who actually invited me into their lane when they saw me waiting! (That should probably go into the joys thread...)
@ssthomas I am appalled (but, unfortunately, not that surprised) by that behavior- I am sorry you had to work that episode through your head as it makes NO sense!
As an aside, though; the speed designated lanes (in my experience) can be problematic also because everyone thinks they are "fast." I know I am not "fast" compared to many swimmers but I am "faster" than most of the lap swimmers most of the time. If a swimmer is the fastest swimmer in his whole tri club does he/she go in the fast lane? And on. And on. "But I am the fastest swimmer in my whole family!"...
+Old person rant:
I do know that as a fairly introverted teenage lifeguard I was instructed to (and did) intervene in situations like this and NEVER do I see any guards moderating lanes these days (in the pools which make up my world)!
At my Y, there are speed signs, and it's just ad you describe. People's pride is involved. And so my usual procedure is to look at the different speeds and strokes for a moment, then pick out a lane compatible w my speed. Sometimes that results in my being in the fast lane, sometimes the medium, rarely the slow lane, snice it's also the water walkers'lane, so any swimmers are doing a very slow breaststroke.
I think you've done a great job in managing to put such a raw experience behind you, @ssthomas Being on the receiving end of such unpleasantness from a large group of people would be enough to upset the strongest and feistiest of people. You handled it with dignity. Good to hear that the management have taken your suggestions on board. It's true that speed signs don't always work, but they certainly help. Let's hope they're prepared to give it a go.
The pool manager seemed pretty sure that his guards were equipped and knew they were supposed to intervene in this type of situation. I'm not convinced that some kids should have to mediate a fight between grown adults (SO STUPID). So, we'll see what happens!
>
The manager said they've tried and it didn't work- my thought was just that it would give the guards more authority to move people if needed. Someones causing an issue: They now have authority to say, "you're in the wrong lane, why don't you move over here for the rest of your workout. I've never had a pool with speed signs, so I have no idea if it works or not- but it's worth a shot to help regulate the Sunday morning chaos. :-)
We tell people that speed is relative and of course, they may swim in the empty "very fast" lane but will need to yield if someone faster comes along. Instead of telling people "you're in the wrong lane", my staff are instructed to tell people "I think you will enjoy your swim more in this lane". The aim is always to educate, not insult them, which usually has better results. I added little laminated sheets to our lane speed signs that highlight applicable rules, like "welcome to the very fast lane, yield at the wall to allow faster swimmers to pass and move to a slower lane if passed frequently". We use being lapped in 200 yards (or less) as a good indicator of when a person should move up or down.
It does work, but management needs to stick with it. We went to circle swimming only in 2010 when a nearby pool was being torn down and rebuilt, knowing that our pool would become more crowded. We were already intervening on a weekly basis to prevent collisions when lane splitting swimmers would ignore the 3rd person getting in, then that person would get frustrated and start swimming anyway. We rescued a woman who had collided with her husband in a two-lane open area that we intend for senior/disabled swimmers, she went to the hospital.
I designed a detailed handout that broke down the finer points of lap lane etiquette and explained the reasons (safety!) for the change. I ended the document by stating "If you feel compelled to ask someone to lane split, please reconsider your choice of lanes and move to the correct speed lane". It took a few weeks to get everyone on board, but most people were understanding and supported us. Our regulars are great about educating new swimmers. I love hearing them say, when asked to split the lane, "they don't allow that here, we need to circle swim". This frequently leads to a conversation about what kind of set they are swimming, how they will share the lane, learning each other's names and good vibes.
You are welcome to share my email address with your pool manager if they need advice or help: wendy dot vandesompele at seattle dot gov .
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
Well I wish we could clone wendyv34 and post her clones at every lap pool on the planet. My local lap pool is actually well managed, so I have little to complain about. Plus we make sure to be extra nice to the professional, helpful and efficient lifeguards. Also, along with other "serious" swimmers I often swim with, we make an effort to be sociable pool users. For example, while we may take over one or two of the fast lanes, when the pool is busy we keep a high swimmer per lane count (4 or 5 in a SCM pool), which works fine as we are on the same workout program and used to circle swimming lane discipline. As a consequence I think we have less risk that other pool users will either resent or disrupt us. The community chairman of the facility calls us the "Blue Angels". Recently, the downward directing nozzle on the water circulation jet at the deep end of the fast lane broke off, resulting in endless pool type conditions as you approach the wall. Remarkably, the lane is now always empty and waiting
Plus my deep end to shallow end 25s have suddenly become much faster!
Aw, shucks!
It's always a bad hair day when you work at a pool.
This thread makes my aggravations seem pretty mild. I am mostly fortunate to swim at off-peak times, but as I live in an old American east coast city, the pools are small and scarce. My main spot is five relatively narrow lanes, and though the clientele understand the basic concept of circling, none of them enjoy themselves. I think maybe it runs counter to the prevailing wisdom in the rest of the endurance-sport-training-world, where the slower athlete is allowed to maintain, and the faster one obliged to find a safe way to pass. Imagine getting upset because a slower cyclist failed to pull off the bike path so a faster cyclist could charge by unimpeded. That would and should never happen, and I think many who didn't grow up swimmers assume the same principles apply. But that would be chaos. The faster swimmer needs the right-of-way, or nothing works.
It's almost always not a problem at my main pool, where splitting is the norm until things get really crowded. Personally, I have never asked to circle -- because I know the slower swimmers dread it so -- and prefer to queue rather than ruin their day. I've also never declined to circle when asked. One day, however, I had been waiting a while, and one nice gentleman took it upon himself to ask his lane mate to circle so I could get in. The guy said no, so at that point, I was honor-bound to invoke the rules and force my way in. They guy lasted about 150 and exited in a huff, and me and the other guy had a nice laugh.
How can you not love a friendly face like that?
This should probably just go into a Perils of Pool Swimming thread, but since we don't have that one, I'm placing it here:
Holy cow- Last night there was the biggest, most disgusting hair/snot/trash ball floating below my lane. It was huge. It was nasty. And it was hoovering just below me for HOURS. Gag, gag, gag! I had to keep my eye on it, in case it floated up and tried to hit me in the face. :-D