Fastest Triple Crown by overall elapsed time

evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
edited December 2016 in General Discussion

Of the 142 swimmers who have completed the Triple Crown (list here), who do you think had the fastest overall time for the three swims? Sum of English Channel time, Catalina time, and Manhattan time. If the person has more than one swim for any of the events, take the fastest one.

I'm pretty sure the answer is not currently Google-able, or available on any W0WSA/DN0WS Inc. webpages - but if it is, please share it here. The list Steve unofficially maintains on Openwaterpedia (see above link) does not contain times or dates.

Let's have a contest! I will send a free MSF logo sticker to anyone who gets closest to naming the top 5 names one of the top 5 overall fastest TCs. Names only are fine - no need to actually brute-force look up the results. It's kinda more fun if you don't!


Footnote: @ollie Wilkinson recently announced his intention to swim Catalina in August. Along with his record 5:44 for Manhattan (on a special "Tide of the Century" match race in 2012) and solid 11:06 for the EC, he seems likely to put together a fairly spectacular overall time for the three. Hence my question about what record he might have a chance to break....

Tagged:
david_barrassthomas
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Comments

  • malinakamalinaka Seattle, WACharter Member

    If you think you know the answer, write it on the back of a 2017 Kawasaki Jet Ski Ultra 310R with a supercharged, intercooled, 4-stroke, inline 4-cylinder 1,498cc engine, 160mm axial-flow jet pump propulsion system, 18-position solid-mount handlebar, and sharp lime green and ebony trim and synthetic vinyl premium seat with accent stitching and mail it to "Puzzler Tower" at Car Talk Plaza, Box 3500 Harvard Square, Cambridge MA 02238.

    evmoslknightflystorms

    I don't wear a wetsuit; it gives the ocean a sporting chance.

  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited December 2016

    Is this too hard?

    Let's do it this way: Free MSF logo sticker to anyone who names one of the top 5 fastest overall Triple Crowns.

    Contest ends this Thursday, 11:59pm GMT.

  • KatieBunKatieBun CornwallSenior Member
    edited December 2016

    Petar Stoychev?

    evmo
  • malinakamalinaka Seattle, WACharter Member
    edited December 2016

    Jim Barber 8:43 CC + 7:06 NYC + 9:06 EC = 24:55 TC

    evmoJustSwim

    I don't wear a wetsuit; it gives the ocean a sporting chance.

  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited December 2016

    @KatieBun said: Petar Stoychev?

    Good guess! With a 6:57 English Channel and 6:28:23 for the Manhattan swim (in a match race on a fast tide in 2010), Stoychev is pretty unbeatable through two legs.

    But he hasn't done Catalina yet!

  • david_barradavid_barra NYCharter Member
    edited December 2016

    evmo said:

    @KatieBun said: Petar Stoychev?

    Good guess! With a 6:57 English Channel and 6:28:23 for the Manhattan swim (in a match race on a fast tide in 2010), Stoychev is pretty unbeatable through two legs.

    But he hasn't done Catalina yet!

    Maybe once he reads this thread he will sign up for a California sprint

    evmoKatieBunDanSimonelli

    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

  • david_barradavid_barra NYCharter Member

    Javier Gutierrez

    evmo

    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

  • KatieBunKatieBun CornwallSenior Member
    edited December 2016

    Michelle Macy? Alison Streeter?

    evmo
  • Not me. With an 18.36 Catalina that purty much says it all. This is intriguing though!!

    evmoKatieBunDanSimonelli

    Looking for the next big thing.. ... @suzieswimcoach
    www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com

  • david_barradavid_barra NYCharter Member

    Mallory Mead?

    evmo

    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

  • KatieBunKatieBun CornwallSenior Member

    @suziedods said:
    Not me. With an 18.36 Catalina that purty much says it all. This is intriguing though!!

    Suzie, I'd be ecstatic to complete Catalina. Respect to you.

    suziedodsHelbe
  • david_barradavid_barra NYCharter Member

    suziedods said:
    Not me. With an 18.36 Catalina that purty much says it all. This is intriguing though!!

    "The sea was angry that day....". George Costanza

    suziedods

    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

  • @david_barra , I think it was more confused... but .. oh lord did I learn a lot.

    Looking for the next big thing.. ... @suzieswimcoach
    www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com

  • Marcia Cleveland

    evmo
  • Jaime Caballero.

    evmo

    Looking for the next big thing.. ... @suzieswimcoach
    www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com

  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited December 2016

    @thelittlemerwookie said:
    Marcia Cleveland

    @malinaka said:
    Jim Barber 8:43 CC + 7:06 NYC + 9:06 EC = 24:55 TC

    @KatieBun said:
    Alison Streeter?

    @thelittlemerwookie, @malinaka, and @KatieBun earned themselves stickers for naming #1, #2, and #3 respectively. Well done!

    @david_barra said:
    Javier Gutierrez
    Mallory Mead?

    @suziedods said:
    Jaime Caballero

    Good guesses from @david_barra and @suziedods. I have Mallory at #9, Javier at #12 and Jaime at #14.

    # Name Overall English Channel Catalina Channel Manhattan
    1 Marcia Cleveland 24:38:03 09:44:00 08:56:10 05:57:53
    2 James Barber 24:56:44 09:06:37 08:43:33 07:06:34
    3 Alison Streeter 25:41:18 08:48:00 09:33:00 07:20:18
    9 Mallory Mead 26:54:38 10:34:00 08:36:32 07:44:06
    12 Javier Gutierrez 27:42:44 08:16:00 11:39:00 07:47:44
    14 Jaime Caballero 27:54:29 10:29:00 09:31:30 07:53:59

    Two stickers left for anyone who can get #4 and #5 :)

    david_barrathelittlemerwookieJustSwimKatieBunsuziedods
  • swimmer25kswimmer25k Charter Member

    This was a record I was hoping to go for, but my back has derailed this so far. Marcia's Manhattan time is the key to the record. The only way to even get close to that time is to do a custom solo swim to take advantage of the currents and tides. Or, water-ski around Manhattan under the pseudonym "Diana N" and claim a fast time.

    BTW, is there an archive for MIMS? I don't know what my times were for the races in 1998 and 2004.

    I'll have to hold out for the longest time to get all three done. 2018 or 2024 will be 20 years from beginning to end (depending on which MIMS time is used.)

    I'm silently lobbying for a "Grand Slam" using the Triple Crown and Tampa Bay. Very self serving for me.

    evmotimsrootthelittlemerwookiesuziedods
  • swimmer25kswimmer25k Charter Member

    Karen Burton (Reeder)? However, I don't think she ever did MIMS.
    Jim McConica?
    Nick Olmos?
    Rendy Opdyke (sp?)
    Marcos Diaz?
    Lisa Hazen?
    Kris Rutford?
    David Blanke?

    evmo
  • Peter Tanham?

    evmo
  • Samir Barel?

    evmo
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited December 2016

    @swimmer25k - no TC for Burton-Reeder, McConica, Hazen, Diaz.
    Opdycke is top 10 but outside the top 5.
    Blanke, Rutford, and Olmos a bit further down.

    @mamiller - close! Barel is #6 and Tanham is #7 by my reckoning.

    suziedods
  • swimmer25kswimmer25k Charter Member

    evmo said:
    @swimmer25k - no TC for Burton-Reeder, McConica, Hazen, Diaz.
    Blanke and Opdycke are top 10 but outside the top 5.
    Rutford and Olmos a bit further down.

    @mamiller - close! Barel is #6 and Tanham is #7 by my reckoning.

    Dammit.

    suziedodsevmo
  • Marcia Cleveland mentions doing the above Manhattan time in this passage from her book Dover Solo. She doesn't refer to MIMS but since it was done in August of 1996 I have to suspect it was a MIMS swim.

    http://www.doversolo.com/catalina.htm

    evmo
  • KatieBunKatieBun CornwallSenior Member

    @evmo thank you very much. I'd love to see the full list.

    suziedodsevmo
  • Nick Adams???

    evmo

    Looking for the next big thing.. ... @suzieswimcoach
    www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com

  • KatieBunKatieBun CornwallSenior Member
    edited December 2016

    Chad Hundeby? Just a guess. Don't know if he did Manhattan. I'll shut up now. Sorry, just enjoying the game.

    suziedodsevmo
  • Paul ???
    The guy for whom you( @evmo) crewed MIMS in 2013, the Aussie??
    Chloe?

    evmo

    Looking for the next big thing.. ... @suzieswimcoach
    www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com

  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited December 2016

    So... perhaps the most important factor in doing the "fastest Triple Crown" is... actually having done all three swims. Here's the list again of the 142 current TCers. Seems easier to check the list first, yes?

    Paul Newsome - no Catalina. Chloe - no Catalina. Chad Hundeby - no MIMS.

    Nick Adams is a good guess - he is in the top 20.

    @JustSwim said: Marcia Cleveland mentions doing the above Manhattan time in this passage from her book Dover Solo. She doesn't refer to MIMS but since it was done in August of 1996 I have to suspect it was a MIMS swim.

    Marcia's 5:57 Manhattan swim was a one-off solo "record attempt" on a fast tide, not part of the annual race. She held the women's record (Kris Rutford held the men's at the time) until it was broken by Shelley Taylor-Smith, who held the overall record for many years until @Ollie and @Rondi's record attempt race in 2012.

    malinakathelittlemerwookieJustSwim
  • I thought Chloe had done Catalina, sorry. I'm just glad I'm remembering names at this stage! I didn't google either of them. And please :) give me some credit for knowing Jaime's FULL name :).
    This is a great game!

    evmo

    Looking for the next big thing.. ... @suzieswimcoach
    www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com

  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited December 2016

    @suziedods said: And please :) give me some credit for knowing Jaime's FULL name :).

    2/3 credit! :) Spanish names are difficult.... his FULL name is Jaime Caballero Echeverría !!

    This is a great game!

    Thanks! -- and thanks for playing. I think it's fun too.

    suziedods
  • dc_in_sfdc_in_sf San FranciscoCharter Member

    I'm going with Penny Palfrey, if you add her 2015 CC crossing into the other numbers on Openwaterpedia you get under 26 hours

    evmosuziedods

    http://notdrowningswimming.com - open water adventures of a very ordinary swimmer

  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited December 2016

    @dc_in_sf said: I'm going with Penny Palfrey

    Ding ding ding ding!!!! Well done DC.

    # Name Overall English Channel Catalina Channel Manhattan
    4 Penny Palfrey 25:43:56 09:07:00 09:19:49 07:17:07
    suziedodsJustSwim
  • dc_in_sfdc_in_sf San FranciscoCharter Member

    The interesting thing about this actually is it really all comes down to the EC time. The variance in CC and MIMS times for fast swimmers is pretty low, but EC times are all over the place for swimmers whose combined MIMS/CC times are otherwise similar.

    evmo

    http://notdrowningswimming.com - open water adventures of a very ordinary swimmer

  • There is another "fastest" calculation to be considered which is different from the total hours and seconds for the swims themselves. It is also an interesting metric to keep track of who was the fastest to complete the Triple Crown or the Oceans Seven from the date and time of starting the first swim in the set to the date and time of the last (adjusted for time zones). Anyone care to start tracking that as well?

    evmo
  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited December 2016

    @SuddethB said: It is also an interesting metric to keep track of who was the fastest to complete the Triple Crown or the Oceans Seven from the date and time of starting the first swim in the set to the date and time of the last (adjusted for time zones). Anyone care to start tracking that as well?

    Already done. Though I hadn't considered the time zone aspect.... good point! I'm guessing that level of precision will be nearly impossible - no time-of-day info in the Catalina and MIMS data.

    @dc_in_sf said: The interesting thing about this actually is it really all comes down to the EC time.

    Yep. Another source of variation is the MIMS record attempts, though there are relatively few. Credit to #2 Jim Barber for doing his Manhattan swim as part of the annual race.

    suziedodsSuddethB
  • david_barradavid_barra NYCharter Member

    GIVE US A HINT ALREADY!

    evmoDanSimonelli

    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited December 2016

    OK FINE!

    #5 is not a Forum member, but is known and beloved by many of us, especially East Coast Americans, and is among the most prolific AND currently active marathon swimmers.

  • david_barradavid_barra NYCharter Member

    LIz!

    evmoDanSimonelli

    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

  • david_barradavid_barra NYCharter Member

    Hit enter too soon
    Liz Fry!

    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited December 2016

    DB got his sticker! Nicely done.

    # Name Overall English Channel Catalina Channel Manhattan
    5 Elizabeth Fry 25:45:57 09:05:00 08:56:10 07:44:47

    And that's a wrap! I will post the top 25 on Friday morning.

    For the sticker winners, if I don't already have your address, I'll be contacting you soon!

    david_barraKatieBunsuziedodsJustSwim
  • suziedodssuziedods Mem​ber
    edited December 2016

    GIVE US A HINT ALREADY!

    I love you @david_barra . That was funny.
    Ok to delete as it's not really topical.

    Looking for the next big thing.. ... @suzieswimcoach
    www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com

  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited December 2016

    Another morsel of marathon swimming trivia:

    The record for ... I don't want to say "slowest" (most luxurious?) Triple Crown is held by Charlotte Samuels, with an epic 51 hours flat for the three (20:44 EC, 20:20 CC, 9:55 MIMS).

    No one else is within 8 hours of this feat of endurance.

    KatieBunJustSwim
  • @evmo , I see a card game... Trivial Pursuit"ish" with all sorts of tidbits....

    Looking for the next big thing.. ... @suzieswimcoach
    www.suziedodsswimcoaching.com

  • david_barradavid_barra NYCharter Member

    evmo said:
    Another morsel of marathon swimming trivia:

    The record for ... I don't want to say "slowest" (most luxurious?) Triple Crown is held by Charlotte Samuels, with an epic 51 hours flat for the three (20:44 EC, 20:20 CC, 9:55 MIMS).

    No one else is within 8 hours of this feat of endurance.

    Charlotte is, I believe, 3rd on the list of Shortest elapsed time from first to third crowns.

    evmoJustSwim

    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin

    For the record...

    # Name Total English Channel Catalina Channel Manhattan
    1 Marcia Cleveland 24:38:03 09:44:00 08:56:10 05:57:53
    2 James Barber 24:56:44 09:06:37 08:43:33 07:06:34
    3 Alison Streeter 25:41:18 08:48:00 09:33:00 07:20:18
    4 Penny Palfrey 25:43:56 09:07:00 09:19:49 07:17:07
    5 Elizabeth Fry 25:45:57 09:05:00 08:56:10 07:44:47
    6 Samir Botelho Barel 26:17:29 10:14:00 08:45:30 07:17:59
    7 Peter Tanham 26:46:07 09:04:00 10:07:00 07:35:07
    8 Rendy Lynn Opdycke 26:49:47 10:54:00 08:28:21 07:27:26
    9 Mallory Mead 26:54:38 10:34:00 08:36:32 07:44:06
    10 Robert (Bob) Fernald 27:17:14 10:50:00 09:12:08 07:15:06
    11 David Blanke 27:39:05 11:32:00 08:56:10 07:10:55
    12 Javier Gutierrez 27:42:44 08:16:00 11:39:00 07:47:44
    13 Miquel Suñer Comalat 27:43:15 11:54:00 08:11:13 07:38:02
    14 Jaime Caballero Echeverría 27:54:29 10:29:00 09:31:30 07:53:59
    15 Sarah Thomas 28:04:48 11:22:00 09:06:28 07:36:20
    16 Jeffrey Cleveland 28:09:45 10:22:00 09:32:57 08:14:48
    17 Michelle Macy 28:10:02 10:02:00 10:12:31 07:55:31
    18 David Smith 28:18:09 10:52:00 09:22:24 08:03:45
    19 Kristian Rutford 28:18:57 10:44:00 11:41:00 05:53:57
    20 Ceinwen Roberts 28:30:23 12:55:00 08:04:12 07:31:11
    21 Lisa Delaurentis 28:45:54 10:34:00 10:10:35 08:01:19
    22 Nicholas Adams 28:47:28 10:00:15 10:48:42 07:58:31
    23 Kathleen Dooley 28:50:02 11:16:00 09:49:04 07:44:58
    24 Andrew (Alan) Voisard 28:51:52 11:00:00 08:51:51 09:00:01
    25 Michael Renford 28:52:26 12:10:00 09:13:22 07:29:04
    david_barramalinakakejoyceJustSwim
  • david_barradavid_barra NYCharter Member

    Wouldn't this list be better described as 25 fastest cumulative TCs?

    slknight

    ...anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin
    edited December 2016

    @david_barra said: Wouldn't this list be better described as 25 fastest cumulative TCs?

    I suppose one might also ask, Wouldn't the [finish day minus start day] version of this list be better described as the "shortest" TC, as it refers to a period/duration.

    david_barra
  • All three of Marcia Cleveland's TC swims (The English Channel, Manhattan Island, and Catalina) were custom swims, where she (in the case of Catalina with other swimmers too) organized a boat, a crew, and an independent observer. In the cases of The English Channel and Catalina, all the swims to my knowledge are custom swims. In the case of Manhattan Island, all of the very fast Manhattan times are custom swims, as the Manhattan Island Race tides were not geared for the fast swimmers. They are geared to the date of the event, the time of day, and the speed of the field. Finally, in the cases of Manhattan and Catalina, she also organized a kayaker (who probably owns the record for most TC kayaking assists!)

  • evmoevmo San FranciscoAdmin

    The "Fastest Triple Crown by total elapsed time" list has had a recent shake-up, with Australian wunderkind Benjamin Freeman rocketing to #2, overtaking Jim Barber for the fastest TC not on a special "fast record attempt tide" for Manhattan.

    http://db.marathonswimmers.org/triple-crown/fastest

    Other new top 10 entrants include #7 Ollie Wilkinson and #9 Shane Moraghan.

    david_barrarlmssthomas
  • JustSwimJustSwim Member
    edited August 2017

    Should Ollie Wilkinson's time be measured on his first or 2nd Manhattan? Looks like you use their fastest time in each event up until the achieve the Triple Crown?

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