Not sure it helps me physically, but certainly as mental preparation, I bundle up a bit less in the winter so my hands and face are cold. I also go ice skating at an indoor rink in just t-shirt and shorts - kind of like being in a giant cold fridge. I sometimes come out of it shivering, and get a few funny looks. "90% of it is mental and the other half is physical"? (Yogi Berra)
I feel like a bit of an oddball, but while I can adjust to the cold water while swimming (ok, 55F, make of it what you will), it has no impact on my tolerance for cold after. When I leave the lake after a cold swim, I dry off, dress, and try to jog for at least 10 minutes before getting in my car. I bundle up for hours after, even in my office if I swim before work- and keep a leather jacket in my office in case everyone else needs air conditioning. Being surface chilled while swimming gives me an igloo effect, and I'm ok inside. Being cold and not moving stinks. Same with shoveling snow- fine in mittens, jeans, and a sweatshirt, but if I stop moving, I'm bone-chilled.
I'm not really swimming at the moment (barely surviving as a dad to 14 month old twin girls) but still have the Rottnest Channel Swim in my FB feed.
I watched their hypothermia experts video and was kind of surprised at the lack of advice to actually practice swimming in "cold" water (Rottenest is not exactly cold - 70F, but they do legitimately get cases of hypothermia every year), so posted to that effect and, well here is the response:
I can't open the link. The event is addressed to aprx 2000 participants and some of them swim very slow. It could be the case that Australia is so warm that some people are just not mentally prepared to stay in 70f/21c water, especially if they consume energy with kicking, if they take long feed breaks or spend 12 hours instead of 6-7 others would take. People react differently to water temp and when they quit and start shiver/ mumbling, it could be easy to put it in Hypo. I also heard podcasts from the winners training mostly in the pool ..nobody complained about water temp.
Quoting my Oz friend's joke after showing a pic from Europe's snowy days.. they get into hypo just looking at the pic.
@BogdanZ said:
I can't open the link. The event is addressed to aprx 2000 participants and some of them swim very slow. It could be the case that Australia is so warm that some people are just not mentally prepared to stay in 70f/21c water, especially if they consume energy with kicking, if they take long feed breaks or spend 12 hours instead of 6-7 others would take. People react differently to water temp and when they quit and start shiver/ mumbling, it could be easy to put it in Hypo. I also heard podcasts from the winners training mostly in the pool ..nobody complained about water temp.
Quoting my Oz friend's joke after showing a pic from Europe's snowy days.. they get into hypo just looking at the pic.
Oh my god, there is a qualification requirement to this event such that everyone has long-distance open water experience. I still can't believe those "experienced" marathon swimmers get into hypo in 21°C unless there is something seriously wrong with the strategy.
I do not know the conditions for relays. For solo's there are aprx 300 swimmers. In total there's about 2000 swimmers. For solo's the condition is to have minimum a 10k swim. Also they accept indeed other ows's but there's no condition not to have been previously done i.e. a 27degree c water temp.
Quote
1. Have completed a previous solo Rottnest Channel Swim crossing in the past two years –
since 25 February 2017 (either within the event, or in an outside of event solo crossing).
2. Have completed an alternative open water swim event that is of the same distance or
greater than the Rottnest Channel Swim crossing in the past two years – since 25
February 2017. During such swim, Event Rules 5 and 6 must be adhered to.
3. Complete a 10km open water swim event in 4 hours and 15 minutes or less between the
dates 1 November 2018 and 1 February 2019. During the qualification swim, Event Rules
5 and 6 must be adhered to.
Unquote
So there's 4hr in water for 10k in Australia, for a water avg-ing 1 degree lower than event's date.
In March is even warmer.
I qualified with a 27k swim in Italy where the water was warmer than in Oz (going in Feb next month)
If i'm not wrong they even accept 10k's in swimming pools for internationals where winter "is coming".
There are no rules about how long each swimmer has to swim on a relay. When I did Rotto in 2017 the rumor was one relay was trading off every 40 seconds. many of the faster relays comprised of low body fat members trade of every 5 minutes. Definitely a recipe for hypothermia.
I on the other hand with my ample body fat overheated.
to date their just isn't much research on cold water adaptation and what there is in conclusive. If the body can adapt to heat then logic would say it can adapt to cold water too. I suspect their expert Ian is no such thing when it comes to cold water. It has to be an issue at Rotto since they warn people repeatedly about hypothermia. Being dismissive of David's input is is idiotic.
"Three primary patterns of cold acclimatization have been observed, a) habituation, b) metabolic adjustment, and c) insulative adjustment. Habituation is characterized by physiological adjustments in which the response is attenuated compared to an unacclimatized state. Metabolic acclimatization is characterized by an increased thermogenesis, whereas insulative acclimatization is characterized by enhancing the mechanisms that conserve body heat. The pattern of acclimatization is dependent on changes in skin and core temperature and the exposure duration."
(this is just one of many articles that come up on the subject)
I start to worry about my target of completing a race next year now. I am expecting to train in water around 16°C to 17°C these two months in order to have more time to acclimatise before racing next year, however, this winter is abnormally warm in my place such that the sea temperature is now 20°C!!!!!!!!! (compared with 16°C as the norm in the past years)
I am worried that, if the weather returns to normal next year, and I am doing my target 15 km race, if I cannot acclimatise this year, I will have only one month or even less for me to acclimatise by then in the next winter even if I can do the distance in warmer water. Is it possible to do a race at 16°C given I am acclimatised at 19°C the month before, and it only takes a month for the sea from 19°C to 16°C?
@miklcct said:
Is it possible to do a race at 16°C given I am acclimatised at 19°C the month before, and it only takes a month for the sea from 19°C to 16°C?
@JSwim said:
Especially if you acclimate to cold outside of swimming. Things like cold showers, cold/ice bath soaks, under dressing for the weather, sleeping in a cold room with the window open & light covers, and my go-to, wearing an ice vest.
I usually have a short window for swimming between 50 F & 70 F (10 C & 21 C). Non-swimming cold adaptation has worked well for me.
It may not be possible to do those kind of things for me due to the environment I live without sacrificing my swim sessions:
I live in a subdivided flat so no bath for me, only showers
The weather currently is too warm, so showers are not cold even with heater off (If the weather is not warm, I will be swimming in cold water already), underdressing is not possible (I am sweating now even with minimal dressing), and the room is not cold even with the window open and lightest possible cover.
Moreover, with the window open, it is too noisy for me to sleep well as I am living directly above a street market. (I have other homes as well, but they are in suburban / rural areas such that going to swim training is outright impossible there)
Maybe I should buy an ice vest and wear it all year round, because the summer is intolerable here and I am fainting after a short walk!
Basically when non-swimming cold adaption is possible in my region, swimming in cold water is also possible at the same time as well due to climate. We all know the sea temperature much depends on the weather preceding it. In the past years, there could even be more than a week when the air temperature is < 10°C, which significantly cooled down the sea, but there has been none this year, and in these 2 weeks the air temperature is consistently more than 3°C above the normal, causing the sea to warm up as well.
Basically the temperature here has already been weeks like that:
For ice baths some folks here use tubs big enough to sit in (such as animal water troughs) instead of a bath tub and add bags of ice and/or frozen water bottles. But from what you said, I doubt you have space for a trough. The first link above has info if that is doable for you, and a very good video.
I love (and hate) my Cool Fat Burner ice vests. I have both types and wear them together, for 1-2 hours at a time. It's uncomfortable (hence the love/hate). The skin underneath turns bright red and I'm cold for an hour or so after taking them off. They jack my metabolism, so I can't sleep for 3 or so hours after removal. (But then, I sleep amazingly well. They should sell them as an insomnia cure.) I ALWAYS wear a t-shirt underneath to protect my skin a little. But then I put mine in a deep freezer that is colder than a freezer with a refrigerator.
FYI "Phase changing" cooling vests aren't as cold (55 F - 65 F or 13 C - 18 C), but they can be regenerated by soaking their ice packs in ice water or putting them in a freezer. That type wouldn't be the same experience as a 0 F (-18 C) ice vest. But you're only trying to adapt to from 19 C to 16 C, so it might work. Though I think you'd have to be inactive (or even sleeping) when you wore it to have a noticeable impact on cold adaptation.
Life begins at the end of your comfort zone. --Neale Donald Walsch
I'm reading historical weather reports now and find out the fact to be even more terrifying!!!!!!!! On 2017-02-12, in a warm winter, the sea was 20.0°C, in 2008, on the same date after a historical cold surge, it was 13.4°C!!!!!!!!!, and in 2009, it was 19.3°C warm again.
I'm afraid no that amount of training beforehand will work if there is an intense cold surge making it down from 18.7°C (where I have already been acclimated) to 13.4°C (where I have never been able to have a chance to even try it for 20 minutes in these few years) within a single f**king month (as the case in 2008) just before a marathon swimming race!!!!! We can hope for the best, but we can't prepare for the worst!!!!!
I highly recommend @LakeBagger's just-published review of the current state of the science of cold-water acclimatization, and its applications to swimming:
I love (and hate) my Cool Fat Burner ice vests. I have both types and wear them together, for 1-2 hours at a time. It's uncomfortable (hence the love/hate). The skin underneath turns bright red and I'm cold for an hour or so after taking them off. They jack my metabolism, so I can't sleep for 3 or so hours after removal. (But then, I sleep amazingly well. They should sell them as an insomnia cure.) I ALWAYS wear a t-shirt underneath to protect my skin a little. But then I put mine in a deep freezer that is colder than a freezer with a refrigerator.
@JSwim after 1 year since your post, do you still recommend this vest and consider there are noticeable improvements after using it? I am thinking about using this vest for EC equivalent conditions swims, or worse the qualification swim which looking from the side, seems more challenging. I am not considering improvement for ice mile swims, so not looking on feedback into that area.
@BogdanZ said: @JSwim after 1 year since your post, do you still recommend this vest and consider there are noticeable improvements after using it? I am thinking about using this vest for EC equivalent conditions swims, or worse the qualification swim which looking from the side, seems more challenging. I am not considering improvement for ice mile swims, so not looking on feedback into that area.
KR.
Definitely still recommend them. They're the only cold acclimation I use besides under-dressing in the winter. Just get them cold enough and wear long enough that you're significantly cold afterwards.
Life begins at the end of your comfort zone. --Neale Donald Walsch
Drink vodka and sleep on opan windows through winter!
That works extremly well for me!
I never forget my funny trip to Tallinn 2018! IMy first move in Estonia was buy 2l Saaremaa
vodka on airport and go adapted for my adventure!
World winter swim champ!
Unforgettable experience!
Viva beautiful Tallinn and cool Saaremaa! ))))
Ps : swim water -1C
Air -9C
Agree with Evan, a lot of good info here. I learned a lot from reading this piece from Jessica and hopefully others can learn from our cautionary tale!
Thanks @evmo and @SwimBrothers1. I was impressed with how willing everyone was to take the time to talk to me about their experiences. I personally have been finding the whole project interesting and thought provoking. I know I learned a ton!
For ice baths some folks here use tubs big enough to sit in (such as animal water troughs) instead of a bath tub and add bags of ice and/or frozen water bottles. But from what you said, I doubt you have space for a trough. The first link above has info if that is doable for you, and a very good video.
I love (and hate) my Cool Fat Burner ice vests. I have both types and wear them together, for 1-2 hours at a time. It's uncomfortable (hence the love/hate). The skin underneath turns bright red and I'm cold for an hour or so after taking them off. They jack my metabolism, so I can't sleep for 3 or so hours after removal. (But then, I sleep amazingly well. They should sell them as an insomnia cure.) I ALWAYS wear a t-shirt underneath to protect my skin a little. But then I put mine in a deep freezer that is colder than a freezer with a refrigerator.
FYI "Phase changing" cooling vests aren't as cold (55 F - 65 F or 13 C - 18 C), but they can be regenerated by soaking their ice packs in ice water or putting them in a freezer. That type wouldn't be the same experience as a 0 F (-18 C) ice vest. But you're only trying to adapt to from 19 C to 16 C, so it might work. Though I think you'd have to be inactive (or even sleeping) when you wore it to have a noticeable impact on cold adaptation.
I'm now starting my process of cold water acclimation. The local sea here has just reached 15-16°C for a few days after an intense cold surge down from 18-19°C last week. I tried to do my qualification but only lasted for just more than 3 hours at about 15.5°C - 16°C on a sunny calm day. I was losing my coordination and started shivering in water at the moment I came out. My stroke rate went from 64 from the beginning to 72 at the end.
I'll spend more time in the water and try to get it done again later this month.
@miklcct please do update on how it goes. I know from your previous posts that you enjoy cold water and I was just thinking earlier today (before I even read this post) that you might be someone who is at risk for going too far too fast because you don’t seem to have the same discomfort associated with cold as some people do. This might seem like a silly question, but did you feel uncomfortable during the 3 hour, or was it the uncoordination that caused you to (wisely) end or both?
@LakeBagger said: @miklcct please do update on how it goes. I know from your previous posts that you enjoy cold water and I was just thinking earlier today (before I even read this post) that you might be someone who is at risk for going too far too fast because you don’t seem to have the same discomfort associated with cold as some people do. This might seem like a silly question, but did you feel uncomfortable during the 3 hour, or was it the uncoordination that caused you to (wisely) end or both?
I never felt comfortable during that 3 hours, and I ended myself because I couldn't concentrate anymore on my swim and even started shivering in the water. It took me half an hour to get well afterwards. I never had any decent swims at lower than 16°C before that week, apart from a few short dips while on my Nordic trip in 2019, as in the past two years since I started serious swim training the temperature didn't went below 18°C where I live.
Actually my enjoyment in cold water has become less this year compared to 2019, probably because I couldn't go on a trip to Europe in 2020 and I stayed in the hot weather for too long.
Btw I have decided to suspend my training for the Channel because I'm too stressed after my 16 km swim which I didn't come in in my expected time, losing my prospective crew (the girl I found ended our relationship suddenly), and trying to get my qualification done but didn't make it, all in a month. I visited a psychologist, discussed my situation, and concluded that my training for the Channel was doing no good for my health.
I have decided to put it aside, and train instead for the race Cold Half in the coming February which I did last year. Therefore I'll shift my training to target a 5-6 hour race instead of the Channel.
Now the sea has warmed to 17°C and I no longer have the discomfort as in my qualification attempt, but I still need to swim fast to be comfortable. I'm training to hope that I can sustain the effort for 6 hours such that I can complete my race.
Also, according to the weather forecast, it's unlikely for me to do the qualification again this month as there will be 2 warm weeks coming, that I'm expecting the sea temperature to stay at 17-18°C for a while. I'll decide if I will continue to train for the Channel or let my friend do it by the end of this winter, depending if I can get my qualification done and my race result in February.
@miklcct, with your 3-hour swim, were you urinating regularly? When I first attempted Issyk Kul in 2015, the temp was 13.5C. I lasted only 2:31 and did fewer than 5K. I was never able to pee, despite a very full bladder, and I was shaking uncontrollably. I stopped being able to drink near the end, too. I feel certain that if I could have peed, I would have lasted longer and maybe even finished.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
@IronMike said: @miklcct, with your 3-hour swim, were you urinating regularly? When I first attempted Issyk Kul in 2015, the temp was 13.5C. I lasted only 2:31 and did fewer than 5K. I was never able to pee, despite a very full bladder, and I was shaking uncontrollably. I stopped being able to drink near the end, too. I feel certain that if I could have peed, I would have lasted longer and maybe even finished.
@miklcct said:
Btw I have decided to suspend my training for the Channel because I'm too stressed after my 16 km swim which I didn't come in in my expected time, losing my prospective crew (the girl I found ended our relationship suddenly), and trying to get my qualification done but didn't make it, all in a month. I visited a psychologist, discussed my situation, and concluded that my training for the Channel was doing no good for my health.
You must be disappointed, but I think you probably made a good decision. Mind and body both need to be working together and your mind apparently took on a little too much. If your head isn't in it, you body isn't going to pull you through. Conversely, if your body isn't on board, then your mind will finally give up. So not only do you need to train your body, you need to train your mind. And both will experience set backs.
Don't beat yourself up too badly. You are young and the Channel will always be there as a challenge. You have learned a lot even though you aren't where you expected to be.
@miklcct said:
Btw I have decided to suspend my training for the Channel because I'm too stressed after my 16 km swim which I didn't come in in my expected time, losing my prospective crew (the girl I found ended our relationship suddenly), and trying to get my qualification done but didn't make it, all in a month. I visited a psychologist, discussed my situation, and concluded that my training for the Channel was doing no good for my health.
You must be disappointed, but I think you probably made a good decision. Mind and body both need to be working together and your mind apparently took on a little too much. If your head isn't in it, you body isn't going to pull you through. Conversely, if your body isn't on board, then your mind will finally give up. So not only do you need to train your body, you need to train your mind. And both will experience set backs.
Don't beat yourself up too badly. You are young and the Channel will always be there as a challenge. You have learned a lot even though you aren't where you expected to be.
My friend who's also going to do the Channel this year did his 6 hours 2 days after my attempt. The temperature was marginal at that day, the air was warmer and the water probably hit 16.0°C already. He's much faster than me so he doesn't train with me. I'm really really disappointed about myself.
Last week my former TI coach introduced me a training group near my hometown, and through that group I met one of the best female marathon swimmer in Hong Kong who's also coaching, so I've decided to bet my last chance to improve my swimming on her in the coming 3 months. None of my previous coaches are actually marathon swimmers themselves, and she is a current national team member.
She also has experience in cold water swimming as well, as she did 10 km races in 16°C water before wetsuits were introduced to FINA, although now she has now entered the wetsuit club.
I told her my goal is to improve my time in 10 - 25 km races, and my race plan this year, including a 21 km race in August, and also my Channel booking in September as well. She outright tells me that I need to train my fitness for that. She has watched the clips of my 16 km swim last month.
When I told her my Channel plan and my qualification, she believed that a possible reason I lasted only 3 hours is that I don't have enough fitness, and swimming in cold water needs more effort.
I really can't believe my fitness is setting back me as people of all ages, body shapes, experience are much faster than me. Even those who are totally new to swimming has become faster than me within months. If my experienced coach says so, well, I believe her, train for my remaining bookings this year, and stop swimming afterwards as I really hate those kind of fitness training outside the water which she tells me to do so. (In the past I only train in the water)
having a good coach can make all the difference. listen to her, don't question her constantly , and just do what she says! Believe in her in the moments that you find it hard to believe in yourself. Becoming an adequate marathon swimmer has taken many of us years, be patient the channel is not going anywhere. i've watched you for a number of years here and you beat yourself up an awful lot, that hasn't gotten yourself where you want so maybe let go a little, let her take over and don't get too far in front of yourself. It seems like you have a number of milestones you want to hit in your training, talk with her about them - are they really necessary, are they the right ones, are your time frames realistic? There's a whole lot mixed into this besides swimming - there's ego and sense of worth but also there should be joy and camaraderie. I wish you well on the next stage of your journey.
@miklcct said:
Btw I have decided to suspend my training for the Channel because I'm too stressed after my 16 km swim which I didn't come in in my expected time, losing my prospective crew (the girl I found ended our relationship suddenly), and trying to get my qualification done but didn't make it, all in a month. I visited a psychologist, discussed my situation, and concluded that my training for the Channel was doing no good for my health.
You must be disappointed, but I think you probably made a good decision. Mind and body both need to be working together and your mind apparently took on a little too much. If your head isn't in it, you body isn't going to pull you through. Conversely, if your body isn't on board, then your mind will finally give up. So not only do you need to train your body, you need to train your mind. And both will experience set backs.
Don't beat yourself up too badly. You are young and the Channel will always be there as a challenge. You have learned a lot even though you aren't where you expected to be.
Here's my newest update:
I'm disappointed now. The weather forecast is still predicting 2 more weeks of warm weather, i.e. it won't be possible for me to do my qualification at least until after Lunar New Year. Past it the chance will diminish as there will unlikely be cold weather again one we enter March.
We have now returned to "summer" swimming in 24+°C air and 19-20°C water that I can't continue my acclimation. God really forbid me to do so. When I started my plan I hoped to build to 2 hours in 2019 and 6 hours in 2020. None of these years were cold enough. Finally it got cold enough in 2021 but for less than 1 week only and it wasn't possible for me to do the acclimation in 3 days when I was supposed to complete the process in 2 winters.
I've found some European friends who are willing to take my spot in case I decide to give up, and I'll make my decision in March, taking consideration into my coming race result and which country (UK / Sweden) I'll move to this April or May.
What made the difference for me with swimming in cold water was starting to take cold showers in the morning. I'd start out with just 30 seconds, until finally just taking cold showers all winter. This helped tremendously!
@LakeBagger said: @miklcct please do update on how it goes. I know from your previous posts that you enjoy cold water and I was just thinking earlier today (before I even read this post) that you might be someone who is at risk for going too far too fast because you don’t seem to have the same discomfort associated with cold as some people do. This might seem like a silly question, but did you feel uncomfortable during the 3 hour, or was it the uncoordination that caused you to (wisely) end or both?
I moved to Bournemouth in April 2021. I did my acclimation plan as planned and eventually I did my 6-hour qualifier in 14°C. However, as I was massively undertrained and got crap weather, I failed my Channel attempt. I have decided since then I will exclusively train for competitive swimming and swimming for speed, as most Channel record holder have a competitive background.
As it's well known that Olympic marathon swimmers do the majority of training in pool, and my new fear of wave and tide since my failure, I then moved my training into pools. However, there were only heated pools in the town I live, and I didn't think I could do my full sets in unheated pools in the middle of UK winter, I eventually did all of my training in heated pools with visible time improvement. My frequency of sea swimming went down to only once in a month despite living just a few hundred metres from the coast.
Now I really feel that my acclimation has lost completely. I got shivering after swimming in 14°C water (pool or lake) for about 45-55 minutes, and I have cut short some training session in unheated lidos (I'm preparing a relocation out of Bournemouth as I really hate this place) as I feel cold, and I definitely can't redo a 6-hour qualifier right now. I also feel strange that I feel no difference between 12°C and 14°C which I can't explain at all. I'm swimming similar times and getting similar effects.
So for me, one season of heated pool swimming has completely undone all my acclimation work last year, and I won't do it again (and do my Channel training in 16-19°C water instead) unless I can find a coach to train me for competitive cold water swimming. As FINA regulation enforces a wetsuit below 18°C, acclimation has now become irrelevant to a competitive swimmer anyway, just like what happened to triathlon since the 90s when wetsuit became mainstream.
Comments
Not sure it helps me physically, but certainly as mental preparation, I bundle up a bit less in the winter so my hands and face are cold. I also go ice skating at an indoor rink in just t-shirt and shorts - kind of like being in a giant cold fridge. I sometimes come out of it shivering, and get a few funny looks. "90% of it is mental and the other half is physical"? (Yogi Berra)
I feel like a bit of an oddball, but while I can adjust to the cold water while swimming (ok, 55F, make of it what you will), it has no impact on my tolerance for cold after. When I leave the lake after a cold swim, I dry off, dress, and try to jog for at least 10 minutes before getting in my car. I bundle up for hours after, even in my office if I swim before work- and keep a leather jacket in my office in case everyone else needs air conditioning. Being surface chilled while swimming gives me an igloo effect, and I'm ok inside. Being cold and not moving stinks. Same with shoveling snow- fine in mittens, jeans, and a sweatshirt, but if I stop moving, I'm bone-chilled.
I'm not really swimming at the moment (barely surviving as a dad to 14 month old twin girls) but still have the Rottnest Channel Swim in my FB feed.
I watched their hypothermia experts video and was kind of surprised at the lack of advice to actually practice swimming in "cold" water (Rottenest is not exactly cold - 70F, but they do legitimately get cases of hypothermia every year), so posted to that effect and, well here is the response:
http://notdrowningswimming.com - open water adventures of a very ordinary swimmer
He "suggested" that cold adaptations are "mostly behavioural"?
Interesting and quite counter-intuitive! Does Dr. Rogers have research to support this claim?
Ooh. Sounds like complete BS to me. I would like to see what research he has to back this up!
Hypothermia in 70F (21C) water?!!!!!!!!! This temperature is warm! how is it possible?!
I can't open the link. The event is addressed to aprx 2000 participants and some of them swim very slow. It could be the case that Australia is so warm that some people are just not mentally prepared to stay in 70f/21c water, especially if they consume energy with kicking, if they take long feed breaks or spend 12 hours instead of 6-7 others would take. People react differently to water temp and when they quit and start shiver/ mumbling, it could be easy to put it in Hypo. I also heard podcasts from the winners training mostly in the pool ..nobody complained about water temp.
Quoting my Oz friend's joke after showing a pic from Europe's snowy days.. they get into hypo just looking at the pic.
Oh my god, there is a qualification requirement to this event such that everyone has long-distance open water experience. I still can't believe those "experienced" marathon swimmers get into hypo in 21°C unless there is something seriously wrong with the strategy.
I do not know the conditions for relays. For solo's there are aprx 300 swimmers. In total there's about 2000 swimmers. For solo's the condition is to have minimum a 10k swim. Also they accept indeed other ows's but there's no condition not to have been previously done i.e. a 27degree c water temp.
Quote
1. Have completed a previous solo Rottnest Channel Swim crossing in the past two years –
since 25 February 2017 (either within the event, or in an outside of event solo crossing).
2. Have completed an alternative open water swim event that is of the same distance or
greater than the Rottnest Channel Swim crossing in the past two years – since 25
February 2017. During such swim, Event Rules 5 and 6 must be adhered to.
3. Complete a 10km open water swim event in 4 hours and 15 minutes or less between the
dates 1 November 2018 and 1 February 2019. During the qualification swim, Event Rules
5 and 6 must be adhered to.
Unquote
So there's 4hr in water for 10k in Australia, for a water avg-ing 1 degree lower than event's date.
In March is even warmer.
I qualified with a 27k swim in Italy where the water was warmer than in Oz (going in Feb next month)
If i'm not wrong they even accept 10k's in swimming pools for internationals where winter "is coming".
There are no rules about how long each swimmer has to swim on a relay. When I did Rotto in 2017 the rumor was one relay was trading off every 40 seconds. many of the faster relays comprised of low body fat members trade of every 5 minutes. Definitely a recipe for hypothermia.
I on the other hand with my ample body fat overheated.
to date their just isn't much research on cold water adaptation and what there is in conclusive. If the body can adapt to heat then logic would say it can adapt to cold water too. I suspect their expert Ian is no such thing when it comes to cold water. It has to be an issue at Rotto since they warn people repeatedly about hypothermia. Being dismissive of David's input is is idiotic.
Science says he's wrong: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1566070216300145
"Three primary patterns of cold acclimatization have been observed, a) habituation, b) metabolic adjustment, and c) insulative adjustment. Habituation is characterized by physiological adjustments in which the response is attenuated compared to an unacclimatized state. Metabolic acclimatization is characterized by an increased thermogenesis, whereas insulative acclimatization is characterized by enhancing the mechanisms that conserve body heat. The pattern of acclimatization is dependent on changes in skin and core temperature and the exposure duration."
(this is just one of many articles that come up on the subject)
I start to worry about my target of completing a race next year now. I am expecting to train in water around 16°C to 17°C these two months in order to have more time to acclimatise before racing next year, however, this winter is abnormally warm in my place such that the sea temperature is now 20°C!!!!!!!!! (compared with 16°C as the norm in the past years)
I am worried that, if the weather returns to normal next year, and I am doing my target 15 km race, if I cannot acclimatise this year, I will have only one month or even less for me to acclimatise by then in the next winter even if I can do the distance in warmer water. Is it possible to do a race at 16°C given I am acclimatised at 19°C the month before, and it only takes a month for the sea from 19°C to 16°C?
Most likely "yes". YMMV
Especially if you acclimate to cold outside of swimming. Things like cold showers, cold/ice bath soaks, under dressing for the weather, sleeping in a cold room with the window open & light covers, and my go-to, wearing an ice vest. There are discussions here:
https://forum.marathonswimmers.org/discussion/242/
https://forum.marathonswimmers.org/discussion/293/
https://forum.marathonswimmers.org/discussion/683/
"The Cold Water Thread" has a lot of good info too: https://forum.marathonswimmers.org/discussion/7/the-cold-water-thread/p1
I usually have a short window for swimming between 50 F & 70 F (10 C & 21 C). Non-swimming cold adaptation has worked well for me.
Life begins at the end of your comfort zone. --Neale Donald Walsch
It may not be possible to do those kind of things for me due to the environment I live without sacrificing my swim sessions:
Basically when non-swimming cold adaption is possible in my region, swimming in cold water is also possible at the same time as well due to climate. We all know the sea temperature much depends on the weather preceding it. In the past years, there could even be more than a week when the air temperature is < 10°C, which significantly cooled down the sea, but there has been none this year, and in these 2 weeks the air temperature is consistently more than 3°C above the normal, causing the sea to warm up as well.
Basically the temperature here has already been weeks like that:
@miklcct You have challenges getting cold!
For ice baths some folks here use tubs big enough to sit in (such as animal water troughs) instead of a bath tub and add bags of ice and/or frozen water bottles. But from what you said, I doubt you have space for a trough. The first link above has info if that is doable for you, and a very good video.
I love (and hate) my Cool Fat Burner ice vests. I have both types and wear them together, for 1-2 hours at a time. It's uncomfortable (hence the love/hate). The skin underneath turns bright red and I'm cold for an hour or so after taking them off. They jack my metabolism, so I can't sleep for 3 or so hours after removal. (But then, I sleep amazingly well. They should sell them as an insomnia cure.) I ALWAYS wear a t-shirt underneath to protect my skin a little. But then I put mine in a deep freezer that is colder than a freezer with a refrigerator.
FYI "Phase changing" cooling vests aren't as cold (55 F - 65 F or 13 C - 18 C), but they can be regenerated by soaking their ice packs in ice water or putting them in a freezer. That type wouldn't be the same experience as a 0 F (-18 C) ice vest. But you're only trying to adapt to from 19 C to 16 C, so it might work. Though I think you'd have to be inactive (or even sleeping) when you wore it to have a noticeable impact on cold adaptation.
Life begins at the end of your comfort zone. --Neale Donald Walsch
I'm reading historical weather reports now and find out the fact to be even more terrifying!!!!!!!! On 2017-02-12, in a warm winter, the sea was 20.0°C, in 2008, on the same date after a historical cold surge, it was 13.4°C!!!!!!!!!, and in 2009, it was 19.3°C warm again.
I'm afraid no that amount of training beforehand will work if there is an intense cold surge making it down from 18.7°C (where I have already been acclimated) to 13.4°C (where I have never been able to have a chance to even try it for 20 minutes in these few years) within a single f**king month (as the case in 2008) just before a marathon swimming race!!!!! We can hope for the best, but we can't prepare for the worst!!!!!
I highly recommend @LakeBagger's just-published review of the current state of the science of cold-water acclimatization, and its applications to swimming:
https://oregonlakebagging.wordpress.com/2020/10/25/the-science-of-cold-water-adaptation-an-academic-adventure/
Thanks @evmo, I should’ve linked this thread in the blog post. Lots of good stuff from highly experienced people to read back on
That is an awesome article, @LakeBagger. Thank you for all your work.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
Very good article and with curious and somewhat surprising conclusions. Thanks
@JSwim after 1 year since your post, do you still recommend this vest and consider there are noticeable improvements after using it? I am thinking about using this vest for EC equivalent conditions swims, or worse the qualification swim which looking from the side, seems more challenging. I am not considering improvement for ice mile swims, so not looking on feedback into that area.
KR.
Definitely still recommend them. They're the only cold acclimation I use besides under-dressing in the winter. Just get them cold enough and wear long enough that you're significantly cold afterwards.
Life begins at the end of your comfort zone. --Neale Donald Walsch
Drink vodka and sleep on opan windows through winter!
That works extremly well for me!
I never forget my funny trip to Tallinn 2018! IMy first move in Estonia was buy 2l Saaremaa
vodka on airport and go adapted for my adventure!
World winter swim champ!
Unforgettable experience!
Viva beautiful Tallinn and cool Saaremaa! ))))
Ps : swim water -1C
Air -9C
Another great article by @LakeBagger: "Swimming to Confusion: Stories from Cold Water Swimmers"
https://oregonlakebagging.wordpress.com/2021/01/09/swimming-to-confusion-stories-from-cold-water-swimmers/
Agree with Evan, a lot of good info here. I learned a lot from reading this piece from Jessica and hopefully others can learn from our cautionary tale!
Thanks @evmo and @SwimBrothers1. I was impressed with how willing everyone was to take the time to talk to me about their experiences. I personally have been finding the whole project interesting and thought provoking. I know I learned a ton!
I'm now starting my process of cold water acclimation. The local sea here has just reached 15-16°C for a few days after an intense cold surge down from 18-19°C last week. I tried to do my qualification but only lasted for just more than 3 hours at about 15.5°C - 16°C on a sunny calm day. I was losing my coordination and started shivering in water at the moment I came out. My stroke rate went from 64 from the beginning to 72 at the end.
I'll spend more time in the water and try to get it done again later this month.
@miklcct please do update on how it goes. I know from your previous posts that you enjoy cold water and I was just thinking earlier today (before I even read this post) that you might be someone who is at risk for going too far too fast because you don’t seem to have the same discomfort associated with cold as some people do. This might seem like a silly question, but did you feel uncomfortable during the 3 hour, or was it the uncoordination that caused you to (wisely) end or both?
I never felt comfortable during that 3 hours, and I ended myself because I couldn't concentrate anymore on my swim and even started shivering in the water. It took me half an hour to get well afterwards. I never had any decent swims at lower than 16°C before that week, apart from a few short dips while on my Nordic trip in 2019, as in the past two years since I started serious swim training the temperature didn't went below 18°C where I live.
Actually my enjoyment in cold water has become less this year compared to 2019, probably because I couldn't go on a trip to Europe in 2020 and I stayed in the hot weather for too long.
Btw I have decided to suspend my training for the Channel because I'm too stressed after my 16 km swim which I didn't come in in my expected time, losing my prospective crew (the girl I found ended our relationship suddenly), and trying to get my qualification done but didn't make it, all in a month. I visited a psychologist, discussed my situation, and concluded that my training for the Channel was doing no good for my health.
I have decided to put it aside, and train instead for the race Cold Half in the coming February which I did last year. Therefore I'll shift my training to target a 5-6 hour race instead of the Channel.
Now the sea has warmed to 17°C and I no longer have the discomfort as in my qualification attempt, but I still need to swim fast to be comfortable. I'm training to hope that I can sustain the effort for 6 hours such that I can complete my race.
Also, according to the weather forecast, it's unlikely for me to do the qualification again this month as there will be 2 warm weeks coming, that I'm expecting the sea temperature to stay at 17-18°C for a while. I'll decide if I will continue to train for the Channel or let my friend do it by the end of this winter, depending if I can get my qualification done and my race result in February.
@miklcct, with your 3-hour swim, were you urinating regularly? When I first attempted Issyk Kul in 2015, the temp was 13.5C. I lasted only 2:31 and did fewer than 5K. I was never able to pee, despite a very full bladder, and I was shaking uncontrollably. I stopped being able to drink near the end, too. I feel certain that if I could have peed, I would have lasted longer and maybe even finished.
We're all just carbon, water, starlight, oxygen and dreams
I never had trouble in peeing.
You must be disappointed, but I think you probably made a good decision. Mind and body both need to be working together and your mind apparently took on a little too much. If your head isn't in it, you body isn't going to pull you through. Conversely, if your body isn't on board, then your mind will finally give up. So not only do you need to train your body, you need to train your mind. And both will experience set backs.
Don't beat yourself up too badly. You are young and the Channel will always be there as a challenge. You have learned a lot even though you aren't where you expected to be.
My friend who's also going to do the Channel this year did his 6 hours 2 days after my attempt. The temperature was marginal at that day, the air was warmer and the water probably hit 16.0°C already. He's much faster than me so he doesn't train with me. I'm really really disappointed about myself.
Last week my former TI coach introduced me a training group near my hometown, and through that group I met one of the best female marathon swimmer in Hong Kong who's also coaching, so I've decided to bet my last chance to improve my swimming on her in the coming 3 months. None of my previous coaches are actually marathon swimmers themselves, and she is a current national team member.
She also has experience in cold water swimming as well, as she did 10 km races in 16°C water before wetsuits were introduced to FINA, although now she has now entered the wetsuit club.
I told her my goal is to improve my time in 10 - 25 km races, and my race plan this year, including a 21 km race in August, and also my Channel booking in September as well. She outright tells me that I need to train my fitness for that. She has watched the clips of my 16 km swim last month.
When I told her my Channel plan and my qualification, she believed that a possible reason I lasted only 3 hours is that I don't have enough fitness, and swimming in cold water needs more effort.
I really can't believe my fitness is setting back me as people of all ages, body shapes, experience are much faster than me. Even those who are totally new to swimming has become faster than me within months. If my experienced coach says so, well, I believe her, train for my remaining bookings this year, and stop swimming afterwards as I really hate those kind of fitness training outside the water which she tells me to do so. (In the past I only train in the water)
having a good coach can make all the difference. listen to her, don't question her constantly , and just do what she says! Believe in her in the moments that you find it hard to believe in yourself. Becoming an adequate marathon swimmer has taken many of us years, be patient the channel is not going anywhere. i've watched you for a number of years here and you beat yourself up an awful lot, that hasn't gotten yourself where you want so maybe let go a little, let her take over and don't get too far in front of yourself. It seems like you have a number of milestones you want to hit in your training, talk with her about them - are they really necessary, are they the right ones, are your time frames realistic? There's a whole lot mixed into this besides swimming - there's ego and sense of worth but also there should be joy and camaraderie. I wish you well on the next stage of your journey.
Here's my newest update:
I'm disappointed now. The weather forecast is still predicting 2 more weeks of warm weather, i.e. it won't be possible for me to do my qualification at least until after Lunar New Year. Past it the chance will diminish as there will unlikely be cold weather again one we enter March.
We have now returned to "summer" swimming in 24+°C air and 19-20°C water that I can't continue my acclimation. God really forbid me to do so. When I started my plan I hoped to build to 2 hours in 2019 and 6 hours in 2020. None of these years were cold enough. Finally it got cold enough in 2021 but for less than 1 week only and it wasn't possible for me to do the acclimation in 3 days when I was supposed to complete the process in 2 winters.
I've found some European friends who are willing to take my spot in case I decide to give up, and I'll make my decision in March, taking consideration into my coming race result and which country (UK / Sweden) I'll move to this April or May.
What made the difference for me with swimming in cold water was starting to take cold showers in the morning. I'd start out with just 30 seconds, until finally just taking cold showers all winter. This helped tremendously!
I moved to Bournemouth in April 2021. I did my acclimation plan as planned and eventually I did my 6-hour qualifier in 14°C. However, as I was massively undertrained and got crap weather, I failed my Channel attempt. I have decided since then I will exclusively train for competitive swimming and swimming for speed, as most Channel record holder have a competitive background.
As it's well known that Olympic marathon swimmers do the majority of training in pool, and my new fear of wave and tide since my failure, I then moved my training into pools. However, there were only heated pools in the town I live, and I didn't think I could do my full sets in unheated pools in the middle of UK winter, I eventually did all of my training in heated pools with visible time improvement. My frequency of sea swimming went down to only once in a month despite living just a few hundred metres from the coast.
Now I really feel that my acclimation has lost completely. I got shivering after swimming in 14°C water (pool or lake) for about 45-55 minutes, and I have cut short some training session in unheated lidos (I'm preparing a relocation out of Bournemouth as I really hate this place) as I feel cold, and I definitely can't redo a 6-hour qualifier right now. I also feel strange that I feel no difference between 12°C and 14°C which I can't explain at all. I'm swimming similar times and getting similar effects.
So for me, one season of heated pool swimming has completely undone all my acclimation work last year, and I won't do it again (and do my Channel training in 16-19°C water instead) unless I can find a coach to train me for competitive cold water swimming. As FINA regulation enforces a wetsuit below 18°C, acclimation has now become irrelevant to a competitive swimmer anyway, just like what happened to triathlon since the 90s when wetsuit became mainstream.